Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Discuss either theological doctrines, ideas about God, or Biblical criticism. I don't want any debates about creation vs evolution.

Moderator: Metacrock

Forum rules
(1) be interesting (2) be nice.
User avatar
runamokmonk
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:34 pm

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by runamokmonk » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:08 pm

how many pharisees does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None, lightbulbs are unclean.

User avatar
runamokmonk
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:34 pm

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by runamokmonk » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:37 pm

I'm coming to the acceptance that I am more of a concrete thinker and that I don't get the mystical theology or abstract philosophy.

On this thread I agree most with tiny's post.

In a sense the foundation of my (unfinished) theology is very material and I guess to some it may seem somewhat cold or impersonal but to me it isn't at all. I think our higher values and principles, the ones which transcend the values and principles of our socialization or, conventional indoctrinations, are the ones which I see are from God. The values and principles found outside the city gates of society. These are the ones that come from outside our culture but are at the same time not exactly foreign either. I have a hard time articulating what I mean. I see these higher values and principles as coming from the Kingdom of God and point to the hope for the future possibilities for a better structural environment and treatment of one another. Those who don't or can't adjust, are the protest and contradiction between the world as it is and what it ought to be. I find God's love in this tension and I think we might want to listen to that, in my opinion.

I have a hard time seeing God's love but, in the above is where I see God's love. I find this tension and protest articulated best in the crucified God, Christ Crucified. He is the one that I can only see God's love, it is brutally material. Even when I go through times of taking issue with God or not being able to feel his love I have this. In this is where I base my theology, Christ Crucified, God crucified. In this I see the expression of the highest values and principles made flesh.

What does it mean to have a crucified God? It means so much to me. That is my foundation, not so much the bible exactly, although it contains it, and not so much abstract philosophy either.

User avatar
Metacrock
Posts: 10046
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:03 am
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by Metacrock » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:32 am

runamokmonk wrote:
how many pharisees does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None, lightbulbs are unclean.

how many pharisees to screw in a light bulb? A moral majority. :mrgreen:
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

User avatar
runamokmonk
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:34 pm

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by runamokmonk » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:24 pm

how many pharisees to screw in a light bulb? A moral majority. :mrgreen:
good one :D

(what a weird thing to identify a political base, "the moral majority". What does that even really mean???)

User avatar
met
Posts: 2813
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by met » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:48 pm

runamokmonk wrote:
(what a weird thing to identify a political base, "the moral majority". What does that even really mean???)

it's the moral silent majority, the ones are empowered when so-and-so (who speaks for them) takes power . . . they're the quiet, mousy, hradworkin' no-talkback people who never speak up for themselves, never say what they really think - so they're "the meek," so to speak - and they need a spokesman and that can be a basis for a theology :o ... or at least some politics ;)


Q - who was the first to coin/use the term "moral majority" anyway?
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

Kane Augustus
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:25 pm

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by Kane Augustus » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:28 am

met wrote:Q - who was the first to coin/use the term "moral majority" anyway?
Jerry Falwell.

User avatar
met
Posts: 2813
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by met » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:15 pm

... who was a generally-Calvinist sort of conservative Baptist American-preacher, right?

so how do you reconcile "totally-depravity" as a basis for theology and "the moral majority" as a basis for politics at the same time? :shock:


well, I really don't know enough about this to comment further . . . but this is what someone else said about it all, from here

Falwell's theology, such as it was, never made clear how America could be both the promised land and Gomorrah at the same time.
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

User avatar
met
Posts: 2813
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by met » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:26 pm

Those who don't or can't adjust, are the protest and contradiction between the world as it is and what it ought to be. I find God's love in this tension and I think we might want to listen to that, in my opinion.

I have a hard time seeing God's love but, in the above is where I see God's love. . .. .
runamok, i so feel this, what you aaid there. Yes, it's all of that, I agree, but I think it's got to be more than that too. Like Bob Marley said about why he wrote love-tunes, we HAVE TO find real beauty and passion in our ordinary everyday lives or there's really already nothing left to fight for and our politics mean nothing :)
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

User avatar
runamokmonk
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:34 pm

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by runamokmonk » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:55 pm


runamok, i so feel this, what you aaid there. Yes, it's all of that, I agree, but I think it's got to be more than that too. Like Bob Marley said about why he wrote love-tunes, we HAVE TO find real beauty and passion in our ordinary everyday lives or there's really already nothing left to fight for and our politics mean nothing :)

Hi,
It's not totally politics, in the usual way the word politics is used, it is something much more than that, but I do think I see what you're saying and agree.

I'm going to take the risk and say this. And after reading this you might realize that each post of mine is a risk for me.

So, I'm seeing this new social worker and I'm realizing that I may not have this sort filter which allows me to easily focus on the smaller details of life. He said most people have this filter. It's like the Emperor's new clothes. In some ways I overwhelmingly see the emperor is naked and I feel crazy because everyone is going about the details their life. My posts on politics and God is a small picture of my life. In some ways it's been serious dibilitating to my life. It's hard to explain. So I look at society from the outside looking in and I try to figure you guys out because it my anxious. I mean economically or politically, the structure and socially. I told this social worker it looks like monkeys trying to dominate and control each other and treat each other really bad, and he chuckled at that, and seemed to agree.

Apparently, he sees some elements of this autistic spectrum syndrome called aspergers and something else. Anyhow, you need a "team" of professionals to officially diagnose this and there's debates on the internet of the pros and cons of that. So, I don't know if I am truly on the autistic spectrum but it's been explaining some things to me about myself that it almost made cry and in some ways it felt like a relief. None the less I apparently have traits of possibly being on this spectrum. He thinks my brain is wired different and another social said the same thing to me but didn't make this connection (yet, I now realize I was sort of stimming in front of her).

So these aspergers people have "special interests" which they fixate and obsess about. As an adult my fixation has been been on more of the cosmic scale, wanting the wrongs set right (another aspergers trait I guess is a sense of justice or something. Right and wrongs). But you see it seemed hopeless. I couldn't stop this because I don't have that great of a filter to be able to focus on smaller details. Another trait of the higher functioning autistic spectrum, as I understand, is this gap between the intellect and maturity or emotional maturity. So, It's I'm a little kid inside trying to deal with this big world and wanting freedom for myself because it feels suffocating and also for the wrongs to be set right. It was overwhelming to say the least. So a few years ago I have this religious experience where I believe it was specially catered to my ability to hyper-focus. And focus I did! (and I believe it helped me talk more at work as I wouldn't talk much most of the time) I personally believe God is personal, but that in a way I was told how God can work as an impersonal force in my life and I sort of also extrapolated that to the world. I needed a cosmic answer because my problem was on the more larger, or cosmic scale.

Part of my problem is not being able to relate socially to others very well and this translates in the ultimate relationship, God. So I believe God is personal, but for me to be helped I have to know how God works as a force, while in the back of my mind knowing God is personal and cares. I cannot tell you how amazing this was for me. It is like the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. So I kept on focusing on Jesus Christ, especially as the incarnation of the Way, and the kingdom of God. And it's possible what you and others on this site are seeing is me focusing on one of my special interests and trying to share that with you. It's like a way for me to be social but I have OCD too and that mixed with bad communication skills and understanding creates parania to the point of what I might consider a sort of mania. I'm more aware that I keep going on and on about the same topic, and I am sorry about that to a degree, but I've done the best I could.

The social worker keeps talking about it being a sort of social learning disability. Anyhow, I'm hoping to try and deal with this lack of a filter and focus on the smaller details. When I first started reading about all this it felt like a relief. I'm not saying I am on the spectrum, but when I read it, I felt like I could let go of this responsibility, this urge to tell people something is seriously not right with the world. It felt like that was part of the point of my experience, God is the ground of our higher values and principles (apparently another trait), and that knowing that, it's sort of a promise for the kingdom of God, justice. I've felt like I was a little kid trying to deal with adult things, even though I am an adult.

And now I want to live more of my life now that I have more trust in this. I tried talking to a pastor, and it took a year to write him, and he never wrote me back. This atheist counslor listens to me talk about God and got a kick out of the fact that when I was 19 I admitted I didn't love God (again, not a good filter, uncomfortable truths smash me in the face..and Social/relational issues.....I loved the principles and higher values though). So much of my life has been thinking if God exists he doesn't seem all that caring, even malevolent, and also from what people say about God (I often take what people say to heart). To go, in the span of about 72 hours from that to being amazed by God noticing me and being nicer than anyone has ever been to was something I became obsessed over.

That's all I have time for now. Each most I make is not easy and carries a risk and I can easily misconstrue or have trouble understanding intentions of replies.

I could say more but have to go.
Last edited by runamokmonk on Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
runamokmonk
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:34 pm

Re: Basis of Theology - Biblical? Philosophical? Or. . ?

Post by runamokmonk » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:59 pm

Also, the social stuff and desire for real community that you see me talk about. Is sort of my desire to be in a place where I fit in. But in real life, now, I usually don't even know how to fit in. In a real way I am socially retarded (not used derogatorily). That would be the planet I am supposed to live on. But it's all cosmic for me, so it's not really another planet, it's the kingdom of God.

Post Reply