Matthew 8:28-34

fleetmouse · Post by **fleetmouse** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:57 pm

Matthew 8:28-34
New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Restores Two Demon-Possessed Men

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[a] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”

32 He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.

Do you believe that there are demons?

Do you believe that this incident is literally true, that Jesus cast demons out of two demon-possessed men, and that the demons entered a herd of pigs who then drowned themselves?

URBILD · Post by **URBILD** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:55 pm

Do you believe that there are demons?

No, I'm a Liberal Protestant.

Do you believe that this incident is literally true, that Jesus cast demons out of two demon-possessed men, and that the demons entered a herd of pigs who then drowned themselves?

No, it shouldn't be taken literally. It's is a political allegory about casting the Romans out of Palestine.

Post by **Metacrock** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:21 am

I believe first of all that evil is the absence of the good. So would that make demons the absence of angels? I think there are "demons" but they not little guys with pointed tails or even fallen angelic beings (I don't really actually know if I believe in angels per se). I think there's a gestalt to human psyche that sort of makes demonic effects.

Post by **Metacrock** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:43 am

worse than demons, republicans!

mdsimpson92 · Post by **mdsimpson92** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:07 am

Metacrock wrote:worse than demons, republicans!

I always knew my guardian angel was Lucifer.

I think I am pretty good at being his advocate.

Post by **Metacrock** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:22 am

mdsimpson92 wrote:
Metacrock wrote:worse than demons, republicans!
I always knew my guardian angel was Lucifer. I think I am pretty good at being his advocate.

just kidding. I really do see the danger in demonizing your enemy. Not that you are my enemy. But even the Republicans I can't stand I must remember they too are humans. I am as bad as they are.

URBILD · Post by **URBILD** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:02 pm

Metacrock wrote:
mdsimpson92 wrote:
Metacrock wrote:worse than demons, republicans!
I always knew my guardian angel was Lucifer. I think I am pretty good at being his advocate.
just kidding. I really do see the danger in demonizing your enemy. Not that you are my enemy. But even the Republicans I can't stand I must remember they too are humans. I am as bad as they are.

Republicans are cute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAHh9LS92i0

fleetmouse · Post by **fleetmouse** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:04 am

URBILD wrote:
Do you believe that there are demons?
No, I'm a Liberal Protestant.

Do you believe that this incident is literally true, that Jesus cast demons out of two demon-possessed men, and that the demons entered a herd of pigs who then drowned themselves?
No, it shouldn't be taken literally. It's is a political allegory about casting the Romans out of Palestine.

OK... I'm interested in how you arrive at the conclusion that it's allegorical. Do you think it's outlandish on the face of it and therefore look for a non literal meaning, or is there some scholarly evidence to support the allegorical view which makes you take it as non literal?

For myself, the former is the case - it's outlandish to me, as silly as anything in Scientology or Mormonism if taken literally. But the problem for me is, many of the other miracles attributed to Jesus seem just as outlandish and unlikely, albeit not as absurdly comical.

fleetmouse · Post by **fleetmouse** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:05 am

Metacrock wrote:I believe first of all that evil is the absence of the good. So would that make demons the absence of angels? I think there are "demons" but they not little guys with pointed tails or even fallen angelic beings (I don't really actually know if I believe in angels per se). I think there's a gestalt to human psyche that sort of makes demonic effects.

If you're saying that demons and the demonic can be a useful metaphor when dealing with human psychology, then I agree.

Post by **Metacrock** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:17 am

fleetmouse wrote:
Metacrock wrote:I believe first of all that evil is the absence of the good. So would that make demons the absence of angels? I think there are "demons" but they not little guys with pointed tails or even fallen angelic beings (I don't really actually know if I believe in angels per se). I think there's a gestalt to human psyche that sort of makes demonic effects.
If you're saying that demons and the demonic can be a useful metaphor when dealing with human psychology, then I agree.

Yes, I'm also saying that human psyche can magnify it won evil to a point that one becomes supernaturally seeming evil. This can happen either by gestalt based upon our own minds, or in conjunction with others (ie see Nazis for example).

Doxa

Matthew 8:28-34

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