Oldest known Bible pieced together and posted online

Discuss either theological doctrines, ideas about God, or Biblical criticism. I don't want any debates about creation vs evolution.

Moderator:Metacrock

Forum rules
(1) be interesting (2) be nice.
Post Reply
User avatar
tinythinker
Posts:1331
Joined:Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:16 pm
Oldest known Bible pieced together and posted online

Post by tinythinker » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:52 pm

From The Discovery Channel
Oldest Bible Pieced Together
Raphael G. Satter, Associated Press

July 22, 2008 -- The oldest surviving copy of the New Testament, a 4th century version that had its Gospels and epistles spread across the world, is being made whole again -- online.

The British Library says the full text of the Codex Sinaiticus will be available to Web users by next July, digitally reconnecting parts that are held in Britain, Russia, Germany and a monastery in Egypt's Sinai Desert.

A preview of the Codex, which also has some parts of the Old Testament, will hit the Web on Thursday -- the Book of Psalms and the Gospel of Mark.

"Only a few people have ever had the opportunity to see more than a couple of pages of the (Codex)," said Scot McKendrick, the British Library's head of Western manuscripts. The Web site will give everyone access to a "unique treasure," he said.

Discovered at the Monastery of Saint Catherine at Mount Sinai by German Bible scholar Constantine Tischendorf in the mid-19th century, much of the Codex eventually wound up in Russia -- just how exactly the British Library won't say, citing lingering sensitivity over the circumstances surrounding its removal from the monastery.

The British Library bought 347 pages from Soviet authorities in 1933. Forty-three pages are at the University Library in Leipzig, Germany, and six fragments are at the National Library of Russia in St. Petersburg. And in 1975, monks stumbled on 12 more pages and 40 fragments stashed in a hidden room at the monastery.

Biblical scholars are thrilled at the news that the Codex Sinaiticus -- divided since Tischendorf's trip to the monastery in 1844 -- is finally being put back together, albeit virtually.

In the past, anyone wishing to examine the document first hand would have had to approach the British Library "on bended knee," said Christopher Tuckett, a professor of New Testament studies at Oxford University.

"To have it available just at the click of a button is fantastic," he said. "You could do in two seconds what would take hours and hours of flicking through the leaves."

Handwritten in Greek more than 1,600 years ago -- it isn't exactly clear where -- the surviving 400 or so pages carry a version of the New Testament that has a few interesting differences from the Bible used by Christians today.

The Gospel of Mark ends abruptly after Jesus' disciples discover his empty tomb, for example. Mark's last line has them leaving in fear.

"It cuts out the post--resurrection stories," said Juan Garces, curator of the Codex Sinaiticus Project. "That's a very odd way of ending a Gospel."

James Davila, a professor of early Jewish studies at St. Andrews University in Scotland, said the Codex also includes religious works foreign to the Roman Catholic and Protestant canons -- such as the "Epistle of Barnabas" and the "Shepherd of Hermas," a book packed with visions and parables.

Davila stressed that did not mean the works were necessarily considered Scripture by early Christians: They could have been bound with the Bible to save money.

The Codex itself is a fascinating artifact, representing the best of Western bookmaking, Garces said. The parchment was arranged in little multipage booklets called quires, which were then numbered in sequence.

"It was the cutting edge of technology in the 4th century," he said.

The British Library bound its quires into two volumes after their purchase from the Soviets, one of which is kept on show in a climate--controlled, bulletproof display case. Visitors can peer at the ancient book, but only see two pages at a time.

By next July, the entire Codex will be available for free -- along with transcription, translation and search functions -- on the Internet.
Adrift in the endless river

User avatar
sgttomas
Posts:2424
Joined:Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:20 am

Re: Oldest known Bible pieced together and posted online

Post by sgttomas » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:01 am

amazing! Thanks for the heads up.
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

Theognosis
Posts:94
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:30 pm

Re: Oldest known Bible pieced together and posted online

Post by Theognosis » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:22 pm

Here's the site they're talking about:

http://www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en

Unfortunately, as in most publications in Western Christianity, the Orthodox Church--the owner and keeper of the codex--is not mentioned anywhere on the site... not even once! It's just sad that people are undermining the role of the Orthodox Church in the production, preservation and transmission of Scripture even to this day.

But then again, the Orthodox Church is not head-over-heals infatuated with the Alexandrian textform (to which Codex Sinaiticus belongs) as much as most Protestants scholars are. We are, after all, champions of the Septuagint and the Byzantine textform.

:mrgreen:

Theognosis
Posts:94
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:30 pm

Re: Oldest known Bible pieced together and posted online

Post by Theognosis » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:48 am

http://www.geocities.com/trvalentine/or ... texts.html

The authentic Greek text of the Bible is preserved by the Orthodox Church. When translating the New Testament into English, there are many Greek manuscripts to choose from. To ask, What does the original Greek say? is to beg the question, which Greek text? For Orthodox Christians this is a very easy question to answer. We simply use the Greek text handed down within the Orthodox Church which has been proven consistent by 2000 years of liturgical use and which the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, has given us. To Scripture scholars there is a huge body of ancient Greek manuscripts, known as the Byzantine text-type, which embodies the Orthodox textual tradition. These old manuscripts and lectionaries differ very little from each other, and are indeed in overwhelming agreement with each other throughout the whole New Testament. Furthermore, they are great in number and comprise the vast majority of existing Greek manuscripts.



There is another, bogus, Greek text of the Bible. Besides the Byzantine text-type family of manusciprts, there is a minor collection of Greek Scripture texts which are very old, and sometimes predate the Byzantine texts by hundreds of years.

In the middle of the last century, modern Scripture scholars, or critics, determined that newly-discovered ancient texts — such as the Codex Sinaiticus, the Alexandrian Codex, the Codex Ephraemi rescriptus — dating from the fourth through the sixth centuries, had determining authority in establishing the original text of the Gospels and the words of the Lord. Criticism was leveled against these critics by other scholars who maintained that the older manuscripts had been preserved through the ages precisely because they were set aside and unused since they were inferior copies — obvious from the ineptitude of the hands that wrote them and the many misspellings. They argued that it was hardly logical to prefer inferior texts from one text family over the received Byzantine texts were in agreement. Furthermore, they noted that the received text has even more ancient parallels — in second century Syriac and Latin versions — and is widely quoted in the Fathers. Even papyrus fragments from the first century bear out the veracity of the Byzantine text, and refute the validity of the older texts.

Amazingly — indeed, even unbelievably — most modern translators work from an eclectic or critical text, which draws very heavily from the older Codices. This eclectic text is a patchwork of readings from the various manuscripts which differ from each other and from the Byzantine text.

Any Greek Orthodox Christian can take a copy of the Nestle-Aland critical (eclectic) text into church, and compare the Epistles with those in the Apostolos — they differ, often, radically, in hundreds of places, not only in words and word order, but also in tenses and meanings! The same comparison can be made between an English translation of the Psalms and the Greek version found in the Horologion — they differ in thousands of places. The English has often been translated from the Hebrew Masoretic text which was compiled by Jewish scholars during the first ten centuries after Christ. These scholars used inferior texts or edited them to delete or minimize the messianic prophecies or types which refer to Christ. Surprisingly, this Hebrew version of the Psalms is used even though the Greek Septuagint is often used to decipher the Masoretic text which is often unintelligible since the vowels are not indicated.



Most modern English Bible translations are based on bogus versions of the Scriptures. Unfortunately, no English translation of the Bible has been made using the Byzantine text-type manuscripts of the New Testament since the King James Version (KJV) in 1611. The others are all based on the eclectic Greek New Testament manuscripts and various Hebrew Old Testament texts. The bottom line is that manuscripts which the Orthodox Church did not use or copy have been elevated above those texts which the Church has preserved by modern and contemporary Scripture scholars and translators. Sadly, but perhaps significantly indicative, is the fact that the scholars who put together those eclectic critical texts decisively reject the Byzantine (that is to say, Orthodox) text-type, claiming that the Byzantine text was corrupted by Orthodox copyists eager to conform the text of Scripture to Orthodox theology as it developed over the first several centuries of the Church's life.



The Orthodox stand on the Critical Eclectic Texts. As Orthodox, we cannot believe that the text of Scripture is arbitrary and governed only by human considerations — especially those of modern scholars who decide what is and what is not authentic. We see the presence of God and His providence in our daily lives; how can they be denied to exist in the Church and in the canon and text of the Holy Scriptures? Otherwise everything in our liturgical worship is suspect and unreliable. The human element cannot be ignored or denied, but neither can the divine. Yet most biblical scholars and textual critics wish to disregard any form of divine intervention or revelation in order to make their study scientific. In fact, present-day biblical scholarship hides its fundamental unbelief from believers and even from itself. It ultimately results in such ludicrous claims that Jesus Christ never spoke any of the words recorded in the Bible — claims that make the front page of national news magazines and mislead millions of people.

Perhaps the best example of the modern scholars bias is found in the first chapter, first verse of the Gospel of Mark: The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God The modernists drop the words the Son of God because they are absent from the Codex Sinaiticus and papyrus miniscules 28 and 255. Yet they appear in all other copies and versions and in many quotations of the fathers!

User avatar
sgttomas
Posts:2424
Joined:Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:20 am

Re: Oldest known Bible pieced together and posted online

Post by sgttomas » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:57 am

Theognosis wrote:But then again, the Orthodox Church is not head-over-heals infatuated with the Alexandrian textform (to which Codex Sinaiticus belongs) as much as most Protestants scholars are. We are, after all, champions of the Septuagint and the Byzantine textform.

:mrgreen:
I came so close to joining a Coptic church....but I couldn't in honesty worship Christ. Nevertheless I have immense love for her people. The Orthodox have indeed preserved in many forms a beautiful expression of worship and God's community.

Peace,
-sgttomas
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

User avatar
Metacrock
Posts:10046
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:03 am
Location:Dallas
Contact:

Re: Oldest known Bible pieced together and posted online

Post by Metacrock » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:44 pm

but that leaves many with the misleading impression that that's the ealiest actaul copy of any Biblical text. We must h older texts. That's the olest complete Bible.

Unicels were copies used to quote form in churches, they are not counted as actual whole texts but some almost are. we have many older thatn that. We have tons of fragments going back as far as 130 AD.

I also don't trust the discovery channel. but still interesting post.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

Post Reply