Gun Control

[KR Wordgazer]

Some of us are from Europe, some from the US. In light of the terrible events of last week, first at a mall here in Oregon and then a school in Connecticut, I'd like to see my country do something better about gun control. Thoughts?

[Metacrock]

Some of us are from Europe, some from the US. In light of the terrible events of last week, first at a mall here in Oregon and then a school in Connecticut, I'd like to see my country do something better about gun control. Thoughts?

I agree. In Japan and places where they don't allow guns and it's not easy to get them they don't have shootings much. They do have saran gas attacks. Still I think making guns less available would help cut down. Look at how many we've had in the last couple of years? The one in Arizona where the congresswoman was shot. Oregon, and Connecticut. Friends and I were naming them last night. there are more I just can't think of them off hand.

[KR Wordgazer]

I'd like to know what people think of this response from a Christian pastor (and one, incidentally, whom I respect a lot)-- I don't agree with him but am having trouble putting my thoughts into words.

http://www.wadeburleson.org/2012/12/gun ... -hook.html

Some quotes:

Unfortunately, our government has assumed the role of victim. The criminal pays his or her debt "to the state." The government of the United States has replaced the people of the United States. When a state usurps the governance of a free people, the state will eventually devolve into a fascism. A fascist state does not arise overnight. Just like Germany in the early 20th century, fascism progresses slowly as more and more power is handed to the state and more and more freedoms are taken from the people. One of the fundamental needs of a fascist state is for its citizens not to be armed. . . .

America's Patriots believed people should always be able to keep and bear arms because there always needs to be the ability for a free people in a free society to revolt against a government that violates Natural Law. England violated the principles of Natural Law, and in obedience to Nature and Nature's God, the American colonists revolted against England.

Thomas Jefferson, when writing the draft of the Constitution of Virginia, wrote "No free man shall be debarred the use of arms." Alexander Hamilton wrote, "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." (The Federalist Papers, pages 184-188). Abraham Lincoln, declared at the commencement of the Civil War, "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it." These men understood that any government which removes the right to keep and bear arms from her free citizens takes a gigantic step toward statist facism.

So, though we grieve over the mass murder at Sandy Hook, and though we deplore acts of violence by criminals throughout our land, we should resist with all our might any intrusion by the government to take weapons from us.

Natural Law demands free citizens have the right to be armed.

As a Christian, I may choose not to bear arms, to turn the other cheek, and to live like Jesus Christ lived. But as an American, I will resist any effort by the state to take weapons from her citizens.

I don't disagree with the right to bear arms, but also don't think we as a nation should be encouraging a situation where a maniac can walk into a school with an assault rifle. Isn't there something that can be done besides wringing our hands and saying "this is the price of freedom"?

[met]

One argument is that criminals will find a way to get their guns anyways.Another is that free citizens require the right to bear arms. The almost-inbred American suspicion of possible excesses by state powers isn't entirety a bad thing, but this line of argument leaves open the question: if criminals can and will arm themselves as needed, why can't free citizens do the same?

... freedom is a mentality, essentially. If you need a potentially-repressive gov't to GRANT you the right to resist it, u already out-of-luck, no?

[Metacrock]

One argument is that criminals will find a way to get their guns anyways.Another is that free citizens require the right to bear arms. The almost-inbred American suspicion of possible excesses by state powers isn't entirety a bad thing, but this line of argument leaves open the question: if criminals can and will arm themselves as needed, why can't free citizens do the same?

... freedom is a mentality, essentially. If you need a potentially-repressive gov't to GRANT you the right to resist it, u already out-of-luck, no?

that argument doesn't hold in Japan or England. I am not saying gun control will solve the problem. People killed each other before guns existed. I bet it would minimize it.

[KR Wordgazer]

The fact remains that in countries where there is less access to weapons, fewer crimes of this nature result.

But why are assault rifles considered necessary to freedom? I will say here what I said on the website I first quoted:

All I can say is, should the principle of unlimited weaponry ownership be the hill Christians defend at all costs? Is the death of 20 six- and seven-year-olds outweighed by this principle? It may be true that people kill people-- but people who don't have assault rifles don't kill 20 little kids.

I just can't say the right to own assault rifles is more important than those 20 kids. If this is the price of that right -- I question the price, and the right.

[Metacrock]

right wing guys have a fantasy that they are going to flight in the streets like minute min agaisnt communists, liberals, and probalby blacks. So they think that's how assault rifles protect freedom. If we were fighting USSR they would get blown away.

[met]

Yeah,i know. (eg I've seen photos of some those guys on AARM.) Alot of those rightwing guys better start hitting the gym very hard very soon if they ever wanna fight the gov't. Takes more than mere assault weapons to produce a successful revolution!


DOH!

(sorry to be sosarcastic about a sensitive topic but....)

[Metacrock]

Yeah,i know. (eg I've seen photos of some those guys on AARM.) Alot of those rightwing guys better start hitting the gym very hard very soon if they ever wanna fight the gov't. Takes more than mere assault weapons to produce a successful revolution!


DOH!

(sorry to be sosarcastic about a sensitive topic but....)

yea really. They could stand up to trained troops. Also let's see the assault rifle stop a snap down missile.

The real issue is their fascistic notions of what is freedom. They have had as their slogan since Clinton "take America back." Back from whom? well they don't even consider elections valid. America is only for them. They think they represent the true owners of America and democracy doesn't even enter into it.

[met]

as I am part-Apache i consider MYSELF the true owner of America. Esp Texas. Now where's my rent check?