My Take On the Election

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Jim B.
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My Take On the Election

Post by Jim B. » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:57 pm

Note; this is all my opinion. The white working class have felt abandoned by the elites in this country for a long time, by both parties. The Dems used to be the champions of the white working class but abandoned that position in favor of exclusively appealing to minorities, college educated women, and some corporate elites. Reagan coopted that group in 80 but the Repubs also became progressively out of touch with the group in favor of the elites, especially corporate elites.

Trade and immigration policy got more out of touch with the concerns of the white working class. Rightly or wrongly, this group saw these as key factors in their worsening economic prospects. Trump spoke to those concerns in simplistic bumper sticker slogans.

He also spoke to a resentment that SOME in this group feel towards minorities and women who they think have been unfairly favored. This unfairness was embodied for many in this group by Obama's presidency. A sizable minority of these folks see things as a zero sum game (If 'they' make gains, that means 'we' lose as a result.) and in terms of tribalism. Our 'tribe' has been shoved to the margins by their tribe, helped on by the media.

Add to this Hillary and 30 years of demonization by the right, most of it undeserved, imo, including the widespread belief among the alt right that she's murdered 46 people! There is a kernel of truth to the demonization: the CLintons are the consummate Beltway corporate insiders and they've made a lot of suspect moves. The ironic part is that Trump is a member of this same group and used to brag about how Bill was his best bud! It's just that Trump's sleaze is business sleaze while promoting the image of himself as a gold-plated mega-rock star billionaire.

A lot of his appeal has to do, imo, with the innate American worship of the rich. He can do for America what he's done for himself. Of course we don't know what he's done for himself since he won't release his tax returns. He may be deeply in debt to the Russians. I may be worth more than he is! People see his name in gold slapped on buildings and assume he's a great builder, while actually in most cases he's just licensed his name and didn't build and doesn't own the biuildings in question. The only things he';s been relatively successful at is promoting his brand, especially as a reality tv star, and now as a politician, much more so than as a builder. My two cents' worth.

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met
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Re: My Take On the Election

Post by met » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:09 pm

Yours is similar to Michael Moore's, of course, and, looking like a genius today, he called it months ago..."the Rust Belt will go to Trump!"

I give T's latest campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, a lot of credit for being able to reign him in sufficiently to make him seem halfways pseudo-presidential.... & you guys can hope, at least, she'll be able to keep doing that in governance.
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

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Magritte
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Re: My Take On the Election

Post by Magritte » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:47 pm

Image

- Richard Rorty, Achieving our Country, 1998

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Magritte
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Re: My Take On the Election

Post by Magritte » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:50 pm

One of the hallmarks of freedom is that when you recognize someone is being intellectually dishonest or arguing with you in bad faith, you have the option to walk away without being punished, imprisoned or tortured.

Jim B.
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Re: My Take On the Election

Post by Jim B. » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:54 pm

Thomas Frank has written about how the Dems abandoned the white working class in favor of the technocratic/managerial class and urban liberals. Harry Hopkins was a social worker from Iowa. You couldn;t even be considered for a cabinet position today without an advanced Ivy League degree.

Jim B.
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Re: My Take On the Election

Post by Jim B. » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:01 pm

Magritte wrote:Image

- Richard Rorty, Achieving our Country, 1998
Amazingly prophetic. Most Trump supporters would read that as validation of Trump's anointment with Rorty as his John the Baptist.

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met
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Re: My Take On the Election

Post by met » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:09 pm

Jim B. wrote:Thomas Frank has written about how the Dems abandoned the white working class in favor of the technocratic/managerial class and urban liberals. Harry Hopkins was a social worker from Iowa. You couldn;t even be considered for a cabinet position today without an advanced Ivy League degree.
Yep, even moreso here, I'd guess ...

An interesting problem for the DNC is how much of a play do they even make to get those "blue collar" Midwestern voters back? Or is it better they just form a new coalition out of minority's, immigrants, and urban professionals? The demographics of the future would seem pretty good for the second strategy? PLUS those people have real intractable, structural issues that don't seem like their going away soon, & not the sort of things that are addressed cheaply (by Supreme Court appnt's & so forth) so the GOP inherits those headaches too.

Would that perhaps redraw the US electoral map so it looks a bit similar to the pre-Johnson era?

Trump probly will give the Rust Belt a few infrastructure projects, etc, but it will likely only be tokenism & gestural. And the GOP will likely bolster some sagging carbon-based industries like coal, which could be the most dangerous, potentially environmentally-devastating moves they make, esp longer-term-wise. That'd be the biggest concern about the current US sitch, likely, from an intern'l perspective....
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

Jim B.
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Re: My Take On the Election

Post by Jim B. » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:56 pm

met wrote:
Yep, even moreso here, I'd guess ...

An interesting problem for the DNC is how much of a play do they even make to get those "blue collar" Midwestern voters back? Or is it better they just form a new coalition out of minority's, immigrants, and urban professionals? The demographics of the future would seem pretty good for the second strategy? PLUS those people have real intractable, structural issues that don't seem like their going away soon, & not the sort of things that are addressed cheaply (by Supreme Court appnt's & so forth) so the GOP inherits those headaches too.

Would that perhaps redraw the US electoral map so it looks a bit similar to the pre-Johnson era?

Trump probly will give the Rust Belt a few infrastructure projects, etc, but it will likely only be tokenism & gestural. And the GOP will likely bolster some sagging carbon-based industries like coal, which could be the most dangerous, potentially environmentally-devastating moves they make, esp longer-term-wise. That'd be the biggest concern about the current US sitch, likely, from an intern'l perspective....
I agree with most of what you say. One problem is that the Dems have traditionally been the "labor" party, altho they aren't so much anymore. Now they're more the "donor class" party. The traditional Dem argument, which I agree with, is that the middle class is the engine of economic regeneration. If that's true, then you can use that argument to appeal to the rust belt working class whites at the same time that youappeal to minorities, urban professionals, etc. "A rising tide lifts all boats." Dems have to argue more persuasively that the tide rises not through trickle down but through a mix of targeted middle class tax cuts, infrastructure and education spending, and structural changes that begin to redress economic unfairness, such as Wall St. and trade reform, repealing Citizen's United, real campaign finance reform, etc.

That being said, there's the (perceived) cultural divide, which may be even deeper than the economic one. Dems are no longer culturally in touch, or even particularly sensitive to, working class people. Dems have to be willing to go to these small burned out post-industrial towns and really listen to what people there have to say. Katy Perry and the rest of the gliterati only increase the perception in working people's minds of this divide.

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met
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Re: My Take On the Election

Post by met » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:42 am

https://techcrunch.com/2016/04/25/the-d ... s-of-jobs/

Jim, nicely put, but i think your points raise the question, "who - if anyone - will be the middle class of the future?" Everyone is saying it's not a problem Trump can fix in one term, but will take a few decades, if it's fixable at all.
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

Jim B.
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:36 am

Re: My Take On the Election

Post by Jim B. » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:03 pm

met wrote:https://techcrunch.com/2016/04/25/the-d ... s-of-jobs/

Jim, nicely put, but i think your points raise the question, "who - if anyone - will be the middle class of the future?" Everyone is saying it's not a problem Trump can fix in one term, but will take a few decades, if it's fixable at all.
Yes, that's an ongoing problem. Will the huge displacements be more than made up for by the increased efficiency and lower costs of goods? Maybe worker-owned companies will be a way to address the current trend, which is greater accumulation of wealth by those at the very top and lower prices but also fewer jobs that we can live on. Prices of consumer goods keep going down but things like rent, utilities, health care keep increasing. Henry Ford, not an otherwise enlightened guy, said he paid his workers enough so they could afford to buy the cars they were making. Aren't corporations really working against their own long-term interests? Whether the solution is worker owned companies, more entrepreneurship or some kind of guaranteed annual income, something must change.

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