What do you think of Islam?

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sgttomas
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What do you think of Islam?

Post by sgttomas » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:28 pm

Honesty, please. It shows respect.

Dignity, as you are capable.

...
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

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met
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Re: What do you think of Islam?

Post by met » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:57 pm

Honestly, I barely know the bare bones of Islam....& have little feel for Islamic thought or practice....but, my first question, there are what? - nearly as many who identify as "Muslim" as "X-Ian"?

... & if somebody asked me that about xianity, I might be reluctant to add me there even WAS such a thing, a single, encompassing meta-concept like that.

So, how do you feel about that? Is there a single, essential "Islam" underneath all the cultural variations and the individualized perspectives?

(I'm approaching the question like this, instead of more abstractly & theologically this time, since you put this thread up on the "social issues" board, btw, )
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

rvhill
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Re: What do you think of Islam?

Post by rvhill » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:07 pm

Idolatry of the law is still idolatry, any law. I agree with Tolstoy organized religion like anything man made is inherently evil, because humanity is evil.

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Re: What do you think of Islam?

Post by rvhill » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:15 pm

Also justice is a foreign concept to humanity. No one understand what justice, really mean. I know I don’t, and I have studied it. I know what people think it mean. This why I believe in grace.

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sgttomas
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Re: What do you think of Islam?

Post by sgttomas » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:54 pm

met wrote:Honestly, I barely know the bare bones of Islam....& have little feel for Islamic thought or practice....but, my first question, there are what? - nearly as many who identify as "Muslim" as "X-Ian"?
Roughly, yeah. ...wait, you're counting Catholics?!?!? 8-)
met wrote: Is there a single, essential "Islam" underneath all the cultural variations and the individualized perspectives?
Gak! Err....next question!????

lol

Well, in totality, no. Especially if you consider all groups who identify with Islam, rather than groups that I would place inside the ropes. Heh, not hard to find sectarian strife in the Islamic world! ...wait....aw :cry:

The concept of Tawheed (Uniqueness of God) is a pretty strong unifying element. The Hajj also includes people from a very broad range of ideas about Islam. I believe Malcom X (El Hajj Malcom Shabazz :) ) found an incredibly authentic unity of purpose and spirit in his hajj. Or perhaps one should look to the Quran as the single, unifying, Islamic reality. In my limited knowledge I don't know of any Islamic group who rejects the Quran (I'm sure there are some, but prolly like 0.0001% of Muslims? OH, wait.... I think a group in Arizona called the "Submitters" actually did...yeah...just take my word for it)

I would like to say that Prophet Muhammad (may God send peace and blessings upon him) would be that single, unifying reality....but that's actually not the case, when one looks at the full spectrum of groups claiming the name of Islam.

And there is plenty of discussion amongst Muslims about the "problem of modernity", or "the problem of how to modernize Islam", or "the problem of why 'The West' is superior to the Muslim world", and all the inherent schizophrenia that comes with modernity. I find this subject really fascinating. But I clearly cannot give you the answer that the thing that unifies Islam is a spasmodic response to modernity, can I :?: :!: "Coca-cola" exists in Mecca, in Nishapur, and in Timbuctoo (not to mention Edmonton lol). The malls are full and the mosques are empty. We're just trailing a few footsteps behind the Christians.

Still, Sunni Muslims and their closest Shia brothers and sisters make up the vast majority of Muslims and I feel a direct kinship with most (all???) of them. The belief in One God, love of the Quran and the Prophet, and knowledge of life after death are pretty strong bonds that join us, even in modern times. We all pray essentially the same way, at the same time, and to the same God.

So yeah, you ask a question like that and I'll give you an equivocal answer lololol
(I'm approaching the question like this, instead of more abstractly & theologically this time, since you put this thread up on the "social issues" board, btw, )
;)

"What is Islam?" is like...de jour for Muslims to be asking.

But....yeah, I'm going to say "The Quran". That's as close to a single, essential, "Islam" as one will find. Whatever one's views on what the Quran says, or means, it's the Quran that one looks to as a Muslim. For the vast majority of Muslims. It's hard for me to conceive of what Islam even means without it. ....modernity will, of course, challenge that to the limits.

Peace,
-sgttomas
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

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sgttomas
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Re: What do you think of Islam?

Post by sgttomas » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:52 am

rvhill wrote:Idolatry of the law is still idolatry, any law. I agree with Tolstoy organized religion like anything man made is inherently evil, because humanity is evil.
Well...on the other hand, if you take Samuel Huntington's word for it, Islam might be your greatest ally in the fight against globalism! A little bit of organization on common principles goes a long way, in that regard ;)

Peace,
-sgttomas
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

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sgttomas
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Re: What do you think of Islam?

Post by sgttomas » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:53 am

rvhill wrote:Also justice is a foreign concept to humanity. No one understand what justice, really mean. I know I don’t, and I have studied it. I know what people think it mean. This why I believe in grace.
I totally agree.

...and me too! :)
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

Jim B.
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Re: What do you think of Islam?

Post by Jim B. » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:47 pm

rvhill wrote:Idolatry of the law is still idolatry, any law. I agree with Tolstoy organized religion like anything man made is inherently evil, because humanity is evil.
Do you think there are degrees of guilt? Can anyone ever turn away from evil to some degree and do the 'right thing' in any situation? If the moral law is written on the heart, then i can't see how we would be completely evil, at least in terms of what we intuitively know if not in terms of our actions.

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Re: What do you think of Islam?

Post by Jim B. » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:50 pm

rvhill wrote:Also justice is a foreign concept to humanity. No one understand what justice, really mean. I know I don’t, and I have studied it. I know what people think it mean. This why I believe in grace.
I think we have a sense in the abstract of what justice is, although practicing it is a different matter. There may be aspects of our cognitive set-up that make completely disinterested behavior very very hard.

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Re: What do you think of Islam?

Post by Jim B. » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:05 pm

met wrote:Honestly, I barely know the bare bones of Islam....& have little feel for Islamic thought or practice....but, my first question, there are what? - nearly as many who identify as "Muslim" as "X-Ian"?

... & if somebody asked me that about xianity, I might be reluctant to add me there even WAS such a thing, a single, encompassing meta-concept like that.

So, how do you feel about that? Is there a single, essential "Islam" underneath all the cultural variations and the individualized perspectives?

(I'm approaching the question like this, instead of more abstractly & theologically this time, since you put this thread up on the "social issues" board, btw, )
I wonder if it is as hard to talk about Islam as one thing as about Xianity ( and here my extremely superficial knowledge will probably get me in trouble!) In Islam, you've got one text which is believed to be the direct transcription of God's intent given to one 'stenographer' and in the original language. In Christianity you have multiple witnesses/authors/traditions talking about something that's inherently mysterious. God became a man. W-Wait...whut?! ST will correct me on this but I wonder if there is the same level or type of mystery at the foundation of Islam. I know there've been many schisms and theological disputes in Islam, but the main one, Sunni/SHiite I believe is about lineage and succession. Look at the disputes that raged in the Byzantine world ( and in the West) about what the foundations of Xianity could even mean.

With Islam, I get the sense that it's over, it's closed, the curtains been parted, at least as far as what we humans need to know in this earthly existence. We heard from The Man directly in His own words. There's been a lot of that in Xianity as well, even today. I don;t know how much of this is due to what's endemic to either religion and how much is due to history and societal factors.

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