Reading on decline

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

Moderator:Metacrock

User avatar
Metacrock
Posts:10046
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:03 am
Location:Dallas
Contact:
Reading on decline

Post by Metacrock » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:52 pm

I've seen stats, It doesn't look good. Literary reading is way down. I blame technology and the educational system. What do you think?
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

User avatar
met
Posts:2813
Joined:Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: Readign on decline

Post by met » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:27 pm

Metacrock wrote:I've seen stats, It doesn't look good. Literary reading is way down. I blame technology and the educational system. What do you think?

Perhaps, people just don't bother with the 'literate' pose anymore. I remember some conductor commenting on symphony audiences: "20% are there to hear the music, 80% are there to be SEEN"

... same with 'literary reading' maybe?
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

User avatar
KR Wordgazer
Posts:1410
Joined:Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:07 pm

Re: Readign on decline

Post by KR Wordgazer » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:29 pm

Technology is the main problem, I think. That and the lack of emphasis on the development of imagination. You need a good imagination to be able to read a good story and really enter into it. Nowadays, all the imagining is done for us, by game programmers and movie effects artists.
Wag more.
Bark less.

User avatar
fleetmouse
Posts:1814
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:57 am

Re: Readign on decline

Post by fleetmouse » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:11 am

KR Wordgazer wrote:Technology is the main problem, I think. That and the lack of emphasis on the development of imagination. You need a good imagination to be able to read a good story and really enter into it. Nowadays, all the imagining is done for us, by game programmers and movie effects artists.
That reminds me of Harlan Ellison's introduction to Strange Wine - "revealed at last! what killed the dinosaurs" - I wish it were online somewhere I could link to but Harlan is a fanatic about not having his work pirated and misused - Anyhow, yes. For all that I love technology and the ability to access pretty much the sum total of human knowledge at a click, it really does screw us over in some ways - not only as an imagination-stunter but as a distraction and time waster.

It's just difficult to find the time and the attention to read anything substantial. And now instead of reading a paperback book on the commute or even having the possibility of doing so, people are posting facebook updates and texting.

User avatar
Gwarlroge
Posts:575
Joined:Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: Readign on decline

Post by Gwarlroge » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:46 am

Metacrock wrote:I've seen stats, It doesn't look good. Literary reading is way down. I blame technology and the educational system. What do you think?
I just found a good book on this subject: Technopoly, by Neil Postman. Unfortunately, I had to ship it to an Amazon customer before I finished reading it. Sooo...

Technology does have something to do with it. The insistence on measuring everything objectively (e.g. marriage compatibility or emotional intelligence) came from somewhere, and it changed our educational system in several ways. First, the reasons we learn are different. In the Middle Ages, we might have learned Latin, grammar, arithmetic, etc. so that we could write theology. Whether this was good or not, we do learn for different reasons today. Second, the things we learn are different. We learn basic science and math because we need those things to function in today's (First) world--as affluent people, at least.

Third, as K.R. has said, we neglect the imagination. I would go further and say that we neglect certain parts of the mind entirely (not to mention parts of the heart). In evangelical Christianity, for instance, we rely on modern psychology. Much of this is a good thing, but in modern psychology one can't distinguish between saving religious affections and false ones. (How can we measure whether a person has more of a regard for Christ crucified than he did five years ago?) Similarly, we talk about "needs"--not the regular type of needs, the ones for food and shelter et cetera. We talk about self-esteem, a need to fit in, a need for love, a need for God. All of this is good, but it can mislead us. People do have a great need for Christ's pardon--if they are going to hell. On the other hand, if they need Christ's pardon to truly fit in with their friends, esteem themselves, or whatever, then they could probably find those things somewhere else (though not in a lasting or eternal sense).

And, as K.R. would say: we treat the Bible as a series of doctrines when it might be read as a story--a true story with a beginning, a plot, and an end. Most people (myself included) miss out on a lot of the message of history because we don't read the Bible as we ought to. But we might read the Bible as we ought to if we knew how to read other things well. At the current time, we seem to have no (secular, universal) reason to read books well; and so we read them to get good grades, which get us jobs, which fulfill our self-worth, which is largely a good feeling unless humans have some objective dignity, blah blah.
Last edited by Gwarlroge on Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gwarlroge
Posts:575
Joined:Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: Readign on decline

Post by Gwarlroge » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:51 am

The boiled-down version of my post is:

Our modern educational system doesn't teach us a good, solid reason for reading well. Whereas old educations might have left us with a profound knowledge of Scripture and led us to faith and good works, the new ones take a general psychological profile of a person, find out what makes him "fulfilled" or "happy," and then set us on the road to that fulfillment and happiness. The main reason people read well these days is because they like to read well. Good enough, but not for everyone. School teachers told me to read well (1) "because I was good at it," (2) because it would give me aesthetic pleasure, or (3) because it would make me money (though less money than a math degree would). And that's the main problem I see: a flawed anthropology leading to bad reasons for literary reading. In today's view, "culture" doesn't make us better if it doesn't make us happier. Or so I have opined. </windbaggery>

User avatar
fleetmouse
Posts:1814
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:57 am

Re: Readign on decline

Post by fleetmouse » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:59 am

But Gwarl, you're promoting one extrinsic reason to read (religious) to swap for another (good grades, $$). What about reading for its own sake? Because, whether or not it has related benefits, we simply like to do so? That's what I think we're losing.

User avatar
Metacrock
Posts:10046
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:03 am
Location:Dallas
Contact:

Re: Readign on decline

Post by Metacrock » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:03 am

met wrote:
Metacrock wrote:I've seen stats, It doesn't look good. Literary reading is way down. I blame technology and the educational system. What do you think?

Perhaps, people just don't bother with the 'literate' pose anymore. I remember some conductor commenting on symphony audiences: "20% are there to hear the music, 80% are there to be SEEN"

... same with 'literary reading' maybe?
that's doesn't really explain why. I know why, schools don't really teach kids about " a world of thought" they teach them to love literature.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

User avatar
Metacrock
Posts:10046
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:03 am
Location:Dallas
Contact:

Re: Readign on decline

Post by Metacrock » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:04 am

KR Wordgazer wrote:Technology is the main problem, I think. That and the lack of emphasis on the development of imagination. You need a good imagination to be able to read a good story and really enter into it. Nowadays, all the imagining is done for us, by game programmers and movie effects artists.
Yes and it's so damn time consuming. All the atheists posting and all the Christians are answering them. Who has time to read?
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

User avatar
Metacrock
Posts:10046
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:03 am
Location:Dallas
Contact:

Re: Readign on decline

Post by Metacrock » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:06 am

to everyone: all good answers?

do you think it's pushing it to blame atheists? i did but only to piss them off. I think the Dawkins sort of thing is a symptom not a cause, it's in the mix.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

Post Reply