Rejection of Chrsitainty and Self Esteem

[moksha]

When I say "self-esteem," I mean something different than self-love. Self-love makes us want to be happy, choose the best thing, stay fed and clothed, etc. -- On the other hand, everyone seems to want to be needed, or to be useful (which is almost the same thing). That's not wrong, is it?

I see your definition of self-love as being the same as what I would apply to 'self-esteem'.
I think in general use the term "self-esteem" has become conflated with Egotism and tarnished with it's negative conotations.
Probably by egotistical people trying to excuse their actions.

You really think so? I thought it was a psychological term used by councilors and psychologists and thus sort of given an aura of clinical goodness.

It has been replaced in clinical circles with "positive self regard".
'Self-esteem' was latched onto as a catchphrase of self help gurus and such which led to it being bandied around in the wider public arena.
Then, because of that aura of clinical goodness, egotistic folks started excusing their unsavoury actions under the banner of 'self-esteem'.
Just as bullies like to tell themselves, and everyone else, that they are just being assertive.

[Metacrock]

When I say "self-esteem," I mean something different than self-love. Self-love makes us want to be happy, choose the best thing, stay fed and clothed, etc. -- On the other hand, everyone seems to want to be needed, or to be useful (which is almost the same thing). That's not wrong, is it?

I see your definition of self-love as being the same as what I would apply to 'self-esteem'.
I think in general use the term "self-esteem" has become conflated with Egotism and tarnished with it's negative conotations.
Probably by egotistical people trying to excuse their actions.

You really think so? I thought it was a psychological term used by councilors and psychologists and thus sort of given an aura of clinical goodness.It has been replaced in clinical circles with "positive self regard".
'Self-esteem' was latched onto as a catchphrase of self help gurus and such which led to it being bandied around in the wider public arena.
Then, because of that aura of clinical goodness, egotistic folks started excusing their unsavoury actions under the banner of 'self-esteem'.
Just as bullies like to tell themselves, and everyone else, that they are just being assertive.[/quote]
[/quote]



Fracis work is recent and he uses self esteem

[Kane Augustus]

Just on a very basic level, "self-esteem" means respect for or a favourable opinion of oneself.

In my estimation, it is really rather difficult for a Christian to have self-esteem because part of the Christian message most predominantly taught is that to be a Christian one must deny oneself (cf. Luke 9:23-24). And for the life of me, I cannot see how denial of oneself can in any way amount to anything remotely like self-esteem. Hence the reason why I wonder whether or not people who leave Christianity finally start to recover a healthy sense of self-identity and self-esteem, and how effectively they throw off the religious patterning of self-abnegation.

[met]

BUT. . . !!!

. . . it may not be that simple, Kane. "Self' is a complicated idea. Many of us think that things done just to pump up the self-image - just to gratify the ego - maybe just really aren't . . . all THAT fun.

A person in a deep state of spiritual contemplation; a person in love; an NHL goalie on a hot roll during the playoffs - what do these have in common? The fact is NONE of them are thinking about the so-called 'self!' Otherwise - It's ALREADY over for them. Kinda like, let's face it, there's no way you'll EVER make the big save if you're standing there thinking:

I"M THE GREATEST @#$%@#$ THING THAT EVER STOOD BETWEEN THE PIPES!!

Nope. To make the save, you gotta just be there - 'in the zone' - 'out of your head' - in a state similar to what Patanjali or the Buddha called samadi


And that concept - understanding the ways our ego-needs and fears actually detract, distract and erode our quality of life rather than add to it - is at, or close to, the core of many of the world's religious teachings also. (Okay, admittedly the efforts of elites in many cultures to use those same ideas to subjugate their populace is a problem. But that doesn't falsify the basic idea. )

[moksha]

When I say "self-esteem," I mean something different than self-love. Self-love makes us want to be happy, choose the best thing, stay fed and clothed, etc. -- On the other hand, everyone seems to want to be needed, or to be useful (which is almost the same thing). That's not wrong, is it?

I see your definition of self-love as being the same as what I would apply to 'self-esteem'.
I think in general use the term "self-esteem" has become conflated with Egotism and tarnished with it's negative conotations.
Probably by egotistical people trying to excuse their actions.

You really think so? I thought it was a psychological term used by councilors and psychologists and thus sort of given an aura of clinical goodness.It has been replaced in clinical circles with "positive self regard".
'Self-esteem' was latched onto as a catchphrase of self help gurus and such which led to it being bandied around in the wider public arena.
Then, because of that aura of clinical goodness, egotistic folks started excusing their unsavoury actions under the banner of 'self-esteem'.
Just as bullies like to tell themselves, and everyone else, that they are just being assertive.

Fracis work is recent and he uses self esteem

I'm not saying they never use it. I'm just saying it's loosing it's cach'e in the clinical world.

I'm not familiar with Fracis (sic) work. Can you point me toward some?

[Metacrock]

Of course I don't claim to be a clinician so I don't know about that. I find several studies that still use it. Oddly enough I found more studies that link God concept with self image, find negative self image leads negative God concept. There's a kind of "why wold God love me, I don't love me," mentality that breeds skepticism.