I wasn't part of those discussions, as you know. So I'm not going to assume anything for anyone here; I'm simply going to work from what I currently understand to be the case.Metacrock wrote:we have talked about different aspects of theological method that allow us to discuss "the unknown."
That's fine. You're making assumptions for me, however. I'm not enshrining science as the sole means of knowing. Scientism is just as flawed as positivism -- and along the same lines, too -- and Michael Polanyi did a commendable job of demonstrating as much. Art, music, abstract maths, these are all ways of knowing, too. As is intuition. The connection between these means of knowing, however, is that they have referrents in reality. Something that is transcendent of testable reality has no reference in reality. The fact that you can utilise a metaphor to describe what you assume may be the nature or 'likeness' of a transcendent thing does not make that metaphor a reality-based reference; it does make the metaphor an approximation of what is definitionally unknowable (i.e., the transcendent).Metacrock wrote:The aspect of science being used as the gate keeper of all reality and kicking out anything that doesn't conform to the appellation "scientific knowledge" is just setting up preconceived categories that enshrine the subject/object dichotomy and that in itself is what Heidegger calls "metaphysics."
Yes. As is theology, philosophy, sociology, psychology, et al. Stating as much doesn't accomplish anything. Whatever means we have to communicate what we percieve are ways of communication that people have come up with. Thus they are social constructs. But this observation is unhelpful. In a formal debate, unless you gave some further context to your thoughts on this matter, your likely response would be, "What's your point?"Metacrock wrote:Science is a social construct.
If we weren't labeling the universe via our "social constructs" what do you think the universe would communicate to us beyond its brute presence? People are noun-makers. The constituent parts of the universe are what are nounified (if I can make up a word for the fun of it) for the pleasure and purpose of the universe's inhabitants. Placing a noun on something that is simultaneously touted to be unknowable (i.e., transcendent), like 'God', communicates only that we we've given a noun to a contradiction: make something up, say it's unknowable, and then name it. Such manouevers are no more than verbal capering, a mental tripping of the light fantastic (to borrow from Chaucer). How much further would you or I be if I presented you with the thought, "I have contact with this thing I can't know because it's transcendent so I'll call it the All-Pervading Inclaca?"Metacrock wrote:The universe doesn't come with little labels on it, we should allow the phenomena to suggest it's own categories.