What is left? (something to ponder)
Moderator:Metacrock
- tinythinker
- Posts:1331
- Joined:Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:16 pm
person A: "I am a Christian."
person B: "What would you have if I took away God, Jesus and the Bible."
person A: "I would have nothing."
person B: "Then you already have nothing."
person A: "I have nothing?"
person B: "Actually, you have everything, including God and Jesus. You always have, and you always will."
person A: "I though you said I had nothing."
person B: "No, you said it. It's what you really believe. I merely exposed that belief."
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A couple of things to things to consider:
1. We can repeat this with minor variations for Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, etc.
2. I agree with person B.
Have fun.
person B: "What would you have if I took away God, Jesus and the Bible."
person A: "I would have nothing."
person B: "Then you already have nothing."
person A: "I have nothing?"
person B: "Actually, you have everything, including God and Jesus. You always have, and you always will."
person A: "I though you said I had nothing."
person B: "No, you said it. It's what you really believe. I merely exposed that belief."
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A couple of things to things to consider:
1. We can repeat this with minor variations for Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, etc.
2. I agree with person B.
Have fun.
Adrift in the endless river
Re: What is left? (something to ponder)
tinythinker wrote:person A: "I am a Christian."
person B: "What would you have if I took away God, Jesus and the Bible."
person A: "I would have nothing."
person B: "Then you already have nothing."
person A: "I have nothing?"
person B: "Actually, you have everything, including God and Jesus. You always have, and you always will."
person A: "I though you said I had nothing."
person B: "No, you said it. It's what you really believe. I merely exposed that belief."
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A couple of things to things to consider:
1. We can repeat this with minor variations for Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, etc.
2. I agree with person B.
Have fun.
why take away God Jesus and the bible? You can't take them away because you can't take away being itself.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
- tinythinker
- Posts:1331
- Joined:Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:16 pm
Re: What is left? (something to ponder)
The question is, what are they? If they are merely thought-objects, belief-objects, psychological constructions, then what do we have anyway? Why choose those items? Because the example used Christianity. But we could also take away the Buddha, nirvana, and the like, or whatever one identifies with.Metacrock wrote:why take away God Jesus and the bible?
I would accept this, pending review of whether one is reducing "being itself" to mental constructions of God and Jesus or whether one is finding "being itself" through God and Jesus. It's a subtle difference with profound implications. But I suspect you've got it. Anything, including God, that we can choose or lose, is not true being. It is an illusion. An idol. It's like the saying about finding Buddha on the road. You have to kill him. Otherwise you were just grasping at another idea. God must die to find God. Jesus must die to find Jesus. The Buddha must die to find the Buddha. We must die to find ourselves.Metacrock wrote:You can't take them away because you can't take away being itself.
Adrift in the endless river
- fleetmouse
- Posts:1814
- Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:57 am
Re: What is left? (something to ponder)
Beautiful, tiny, just beautiful. I want to see this thread take off because that's a wonderfully concise statement about the relationship between the contingent and the universal in religion.
Isn't what's special about Christianity the incarnation, though? The instantiation of the universal and timeless WITHIN the particular and the contingent? Doesn't Christ work as a bridge? I think I'm developing more of an appreciation for the contingent elements of the Christian mythos (I'm not asserting it's "untrue" merely because I'm using the word mythos), and how they function as humanizing elements... there's something very cold and inhuman about the transcendent, the thing that's supposed to be the goal of all this Eastern-ish winnowing away of the architecture of the self and its story.
Is it possible that some or all of the meaning we create for ourselves is in those "junk" layers? And that when we get rid of that, there's no "there" there? Isn't it an attempt to get outside of history and context, and isn't history and context where we create or find meaning? Isn't "self" (not as a reified hard thing but as a dynamic and changing process) something valuable?
Of course it's possible to get TOO trapped in the particulars of a myth - witness those poor bastards waiting for the rapture on Saturday.
Isn't what's special about Christianity the incarnation, though? The instantiation of the universal and timeless WITHIN the particular and the contingent? Doesn't Christ work as a bridge? I think I'm developing more of an appreciation for the contingent elements of the Christian mythos (I'm not asserting it's "untrue" merely because I'm using the word mythos), and how they function as humanizing elements... there's something very cold and inhuman about the transcendent, the thing that's supposed to be the goal of all this Eastern-ish winnowing away of the architecture of the self and its story.
Is it possible that some or all of the meaning we create for ourselves is in those "junk" layers? And that when we get rid of that, there's no "there" there? Isn't it an attempt to get outside of history and context, and isn't history and context where we create or find meaning? Isn't "self" (not as a reified hard thing but as a dynamic and changing process) something valuable?
Of course it's possible to get TOO trapped in the particulars of a myth - witness those poor bastards waiting for the rapture on Saturday.
Re: What is left? (something to ponder)
I see. that's pretty profound man.tinythinker wrote:The question is, what are they? If they are merely thought-objects, belief-objects, psychological constructions, then what do we have anyway? Why choose those items? Because the example used Christianity. But we could also take away the Buddha, nirvana, and the like, or whatever one identifies with.Metacrock wrote:why take away God Jesus and the bible?
I would accept this, pending review of whether one is reducing "being itself" to mental constructions of God and Jesus or whether one is finding "being itself" through God and Jesus. It's a subtle difference with profound implications. But I suspect you've got it. Anything, including God, that we can choose or lose, is not true being. It is an illusion. An idol. It's like the saying about finding Buddha on the road. You have to kill him. Otherwise you were just grasping at another idea. God must die to find God. Jesus must die to find Jesus. The Buddha must die to find the Buddha. We must die to find ourselves.Metacrock wrote:You can't take them away because you can't take away being itself.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
Re: What is left? (something to ponder)
fleetmouse wrote:Beautiful, tiny, just beautiful. I want to see this thread take off because that's a wonderfully concise statement about the relationship between the contingent and the universal in religion.
Isn't what's special about Christianity the incarnation, though? The instantiation of the universal and timeless WITHIN the particular and the contingent? Doesn't Christ work as a bridge? I think I'm developing more of an appreciation for the contingent elements of the Christian mythos (I'm not asserting it's "untrue" merely because I'm using the word mythos), and how they function as humanizing elements... there's something very cold and inhuman about the transcendent, the thing that's supposed to be the goal of all this Eastern-ish winnowing away of the architecture of the self and its story.
Is it possible that some or all of the meaning we create for ourselves is in those "junk" layers? And that when we get rid of that, there's no "there" there? Isn't it an attempt to get outside of history and context, and isn't history and context where we create or find meaning? Isn't "self" (not as a reified hard thing but as a dynamic and changing process) something valuable?
Of course it's possible to get TOO trapped in the particulars of a myth - witness those poor bastards waiting for the rapture on Saturday.
Tiny's observation doesn't take away form the incarnation it just means that there's more to it than just words on paper. The doctrines of Christianity must be experienced. The Trinity is not a formula it's a reality.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
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- mdsimpson92
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Re: What is left? (something to ponder)
Partially agree with you on the Christ thing. But those waiting for the rapture definitely were dealing with the Book of Revelation much more literally than the allegory that it should be. Actually the second half of Revelation actually reminds me of the Divine Comedy what with its massive symbolism and references. By the way, personal favorite is the Puratorio.fleetmouse wrote:Is it possible that some or all of the meaning we create for ourselves is in those "junk" layers? And that when we get rid of that, there's no "there" there? Isn't it an attempt to get outside of history and context, and isn't history and context where we create or find meaning? Isn't "self" (not as a reified hard thing but as a dynamic and changing process) something valuable?
Of course it's possible to get TOO trapped in the particulars of a myth - witness those poor bastards waiting for the rapture on Saturday.
Julia: It's all... a dream...
Spike Spiegel: Yeah... just a dream...
Spike Spiegel: Yeah... just a dream...
Re: What is left? (something to ponder)
mdsimpson92 wrote:Partially agree with you on the Christ thing. But those waiting for the rapture definitely were dealing with the Book of Revelation much more literally than the allegory that it should be. Actually the second half of Revelation actually reminds me of the Divine Comedy what with its massive symbolism and references. By the way, personal favorite is the Puratorio.fleetmouse wrote:Is it possible that some or all of the meaning we create for ourselves is in those "junk" layers? And that when we get rid of that, there's no "there" there? Isn't it an attempt to get outside of history and context, and isn't history and context where we create or find meaning? Isn't "self" (not as a reified hard thing but as a dynamic and changing process) something valuable?
Of course it's possible to get TOO trapped in the particulars of a myth - witness those poor bastards waiting for the rapture on Saturday.
consult my blog installment for the day
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
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- mdsimpson92
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Re: What is left? (something to ponder)
I think I see where you are going but can you go into more detail of what you are trying to get at?fleetmouse wrote:Beautiful, tiny, just beautiful. I want to see this thread take off because that's a wonderfully concise statement about the relationship between the contingent and the universal in religion.
Isn't what's special about Christianity the incarnation, though? The instantiation of the universal and timeless WITHIN the particular and the contingent? Doesn't Christ work as a bridge? I think I'm developing more of an appreciation for the contingent elements of the Christian mythos (I'm not asserting it's "untrue" merely because I'm using the word mythos), and how they function as humanizing elements... there's something very cold and inhuman about the transcendent, the thing that's supposed to be the goal of all this Eastern-ish winnowing away of the architecture of the self and its story.
Is it possible that some or all of the meaning we create for ourselves is in those "junk" layers? And that when we get rid of that, there's no "there" there? Isn't it an attempt to get outside of history and context, and isn't history and context where we create or find meaning? Isn't "self" (not as a reified hard thing but as a dynamic and changing process) something valuable?
Also, Meta, thanks for the post on your blog.
Julia: It's all... a dream...
Spike Spiegel: Yeah... just a dream...
Spike Spiegel: Yeah... just a dream...
Re: What is left? (something to ponder)
sure. I enjoyed it.Also, Meta, thanks for the post on your blog.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief