Tillich on why you can't be an atheist.

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sgttomas
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Re: Tillich on why you can't be an atheist.

Post by sgttomas » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:29 pm

I think this portion of my text in particular applies below:
QuantumTroll wrote:
Sgttomas wrote:That *you* is the mechanics of reality, the perception of the mechanics of reality and the memory of that perception (perception of perception). That kind of self-reference means that meaning is a basic aspect of reality - it is not equivalent to mechanics.

[..]Truly the world exists outside of my mind, but has absolutely no meaning unless it is perceived by my mind. So attempts to relate to God by the meaning imbued in the world are justified. They may not be acceptable to you, but that is due to an inability to come to terms with such a God.
It appears that we couldn't disagree more about this subject ;).
I would find that surprising ;)
I would say that the psyche resides in the world, and is limited by the portion of world that it sits in, namely your brain and your humanity.
Right. What I've then expressed is how I see that working and giving some substance to a term like "humanity".
On the other hand, the world we see is in the psyche, and is a strange fun-house mirror version of the real world.
I agree fully.
Our fun-house mirror puts in things like meaning and depth.
Right. Thus making it a fundamental aspect of reality. You cannot give a full description of reality without taking something about those terms for granted. Any description of reality is necessarily incomplete, however, any true partial description of reality can be justified by appealing to perception: if I percieve it, it is real in some sense. Questions may be raised as to the nature of the experience, but this becomes a self reference back to reality, which is impossible to fully describe.

So what I've said is that some aspects of reality - by their nature - lack a complete definition, yet they are real. This experience of reality is a "meta"-quality of matter. The proper description is not in material terms, but in meta terms - language, sensation, art, etc (those "humanity" things you invoked). Therefore it is necessary to have an appreciation for both the mechanics and meaning of life. Each is a proper, partial description of reality.
We cannot escape the effects of the mirror until we die, and I doubt that my analogy holds beyond the grave.
I agree that the mechanical nature of life has a profound affect on the meaning of life, particularly that point when the mechanical nature loses coherence. Everything ceases to make sense at that point.
Hmm, I'm curious, does this worldview make any sense to you guys?
Plenty...I think. ...mine?

Peace,
-sgttomas
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

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Metacrock
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Re: Tillich on why you can't be an atheist.

Post by Metacrock » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:27 pm

We respect each other despite these little spats.
right, thanks man. I did take it out anyway though. :mrgreen:
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KR Wordgazer
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Re: Tillich on why you can't be an atheist.

Post by KR Wordgazer » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:32 pm

Metacrock wrote:
We respect each other despite these little spats.
right, thanks man. I did take it out anyway though. :mrgreen:
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din (I mean Quantum Troll). :mrgreen: I tend to get my feelings hurt. . . :oops:
Wag more.
Bark less.

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