how can atheist live with themselves?

[Metacrock]

I am not trying to insult or to take us into a ditch. I did away with atheist watch because I did not want to dwell on this sort of thing. But when I come accorss it without looking for it all the time, I think maybe I need to bring A watch back?

I know there are those who are not like this. no offense to my friends here, but read this and tell me if it doesn't make you cringe just a little and go "I'm not that kind of atheist?"

and before you ask, yes there are fundie sites that make me feel this way.


the section this thread is is in is called "the existence of God the traditional arguments."

http://ravingatheists.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14599

[Metacrock]

would it be constructive to discuss why these people anger me? If I can discuss it in a civilized manner?

I am not saying that all atheists are like this.

[Antimatter]

There are definitely atheists that get on my nerves, but that particular thread really didn't bother me all that much. Their argument is nothing but a silly parody of religion. They're not being any more serious about their argument than Jon Stewart on The Daily Show. There's really not much point in getting upset about their fun; that'd just give them more satisfaction.

[tinythinker]

Let's up the ante: It's a Frakin' Cracker

Through his blog Pharyngula, PZ Myers has acquired a minor but persistent reputation for denigrating all things religious as vacuous and dangerous. It is no surprise then that Myers is upset by the level of anger expressed by some in the Catholic community over the theft of the Eucharist (a small consecrated wafer that in Catholic theology holds the Body of Christ), particularly reports of death threats. This is obviously unacceptable in a religion that claims to worship the "Prince of Peace", and the local Diocese, if it has not already done so, should, publicly denounce such hatred and violence. But Myers takes his rebuttal beyond merely rebuking what many perceive as (at times absurd) over-reaction in some quarters. In the words of of Chris Tessone, a priest in the Independent Christian Catholic Church and author of the blog Even the Devils Believe,

Myers' response — and that of his readers — takes much from the unhinged anti-religious movement of Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens...

It basically amounts to an incitement to sacrilege, asking his readers to steal consecrated hosts and send them to him to be mistreated.

Now, there are two questions that come to mind. Is Myers joking? And either way, is it funny?

Assuming he is serious about really wanting to deeply mock the tradition of roughly a billion Catholics worldwide...

What do the Christians make of the frustrated and insulting reaction of some Catholics to the theft of the host?

What do the atheists make of the frustrated and insulting reaction of some anti-religious folk to the response from those same Catholics?

[KR Wordgazer]

It's hard to stay out of it, when I read these insulting types of forums and blogs-- but I know all I'd get is more mocking, belittling, etc.

I suspect people like this are overgrown bullies-- the kind who picked on the fat kid in junior high. Anyone not like me is fair game for denigration. The feelings of others mean nothing to this kind of person.

Not only that, but all they want to do is mock. They don't want to have any serious or respectful discussion. There's no point in talking to them, but that doesn't make it easier not to want to defend yourself, or others.

What they really need is detention. Too bad they're not in school anymore.

That said, stealing the Host is a terrible disrespect, but it's not a "hate crime." Giving the perpetrator death threats only exacerbates the problem. Some of the Catholics here really are behaving like the Muslims did when the English teacher named the teddy bear "Mohammed." Retaliation is not the answer, as Jesus Himself taught. Except there's one difference as far as I can see. By attending the Mass in the first place, by going up to receive the Host, the perpetrator was identifying himself as in agreement with the Catholics. The English teacher who mis-named the teddy bear never identified herself with the Muslims.

I would identify what happened more as "hate speech," because it was an expression of disrespect against Catholics (in the sense that any form of self-expression is considered "speech"). However, free expression is still free expression. Unfortunately, though I hate everything the atheists are saying, I must take the position that they must be allowed to say it.

The guy should not have stolen the Host, should not have pretended to identify with the Catholics and then desecrated their ritual, and he should apologize. But he can't be forced to do so. That would be wrong too. The right response would be censure by the Catholics, and by the community in solidarity with the Catholics' rights to freely practice their religion.

[Metacrock]

There are definitely atheists that get on my nerves, but that particular thread really didn't bother me all that much. Their argument is nothing but a silly parody of religion. They're not being any more serious about their argument than Jon Stewart on The Daily Show. There's really not much point in getting upset about their fun; that'd just give them more satisfaction.

yes I agree with you. It is not the worst I've seen. But I guess what made it the last straw is that I had been looking for a good board for a couple of hours that one came up in the picks and then was so disappointing.

[Metacrock]

Let's up the ante: It's a Frakin' Cracker

Through his blog Pharyngula, PZ Myers has acquired a minor but persistent reputation for denigrating all things religious as vacuous and dangerous. It is no surprise then that Myers is upset by the level of anger expressed by some in the Catholic community over the theft of the Eucharist (a small consecrated wafer that in Catholic theology holds the Body of Christ), particularly reports of death threats. This is obviously unacceptable in a religion that claims to worship the "Prince of Peace", and the local Diocese, if it has not already done so, should, publicly denounce such hatred and violence. But Myers takes his rebuttal beyond merely rebuking what many perceive as (at times absurd) over-reaction in some quarters. In the words of of Chris Tessone, a priest in the Independent Christian Catholic Church and author of the blog Even the Devils Believe,

Myers' response — and that of his readers — takes much from the unhinged anti-religious movement of Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens...

It basically amounts to an incitement to sacrilege, asking his readers to steal consecrated hosts and send them to him to be mistreated.

Now, there are two questions that come to mind. Is Myers joking? And either way, is it funny?

Assuming he is serious about really wanting to deeply mock the tradition of roughly a billion Catholics worldwide...

What do the Christians make of the frustrated and insulting reaction of some Catholics to the theft of the host?

What do the atheists make of the frustrated and insulting reaction of some anti-religious folk to the response from those same Catholics?

he's serious about getting readers. To answer an absue with a worse abuse seems to be the golden rule of the cyre world.

[sgttomas]

See the animal in his cage that you built
Are you sure what side you’re on?
Better not look him too closely in the eye
Are you sure what side of the glass you are on?
See the safety of the life you have built
Everything where it belongs
Feel the hollowness inside of your head
And it’s all
Right where it belongs

What if everything around you,
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is that all you want to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks,
Would you find yourself, find yourself afraid to see?

What if all the worlds inside of your head,
Just creations of your own?
Your devils and your Gods, all the living and the dead
And you're really all alone?
You can Live in this Illusion,
You can Choose to Believe.
You keep Looking but you can't find the Words,
Now you're Hiding in Retreat

- Trent Reznor (Excerpt from "Right Where It Belongs" - Nine Inch Nails - With Teeth (2005))

[Antimatter]

On the PZ Myers blog post, he's been flooded with hate mail from Catholics for his cracker post. They've even flooded the mailbox of his university's president demanding that he dismiss Myers.

I must admit to being a regular reader of Pharyngula. The feed is in my RSS reader, so I get all his posts in my inbox. He's surprisingly a rather nice and polite person, despite the vitriolic nature of his blog posts.

[sgttomas]

On the PZ Myers blog post, he's been flooded with hate mail from Catholics for his cracker post.

...Christian version of the depiction of Muhammad (pbuh), eh?

-sgtt.