why does religion excite hatred?

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

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Metacrock
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Re: why does religion excite hatred?

Post by Metacrock » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:33 pm

LACanuck wrote:
Metacrock wrote:I never meant to treat you that way. You are one of the few on there I really respect.
Thank you. And I never took any of it personally. Otherwise that beer offer would never have been made :)
Metacrock wrote:Sometimes you can be frustrating because it seems as though you don't let of things I find really obvious the other way. But I know part for the course. I know it is. that's not a reason to insult.
So what I'm about to say comes from the fact that I'm an instructor and author (at least part of the time) and have been for over 20 years.

If I'm standing at the front of the class describing a complex topic and only 10% of the students 'get it', who's to blame? Is it that the students are too stupid/uneducated/unskilled to be able to understand the topic? Or have I just done a poor job conveying the information?

The answer is "the instructor is to blame".

It's certainly possible that the students do not have the knowledge necessary to digest the content. But as an experienced instructor, I should recognize this situation and go 'back to basics'. Start at the foundation and build up their knowledge brick by brick. Spoon feed them the information necessary to put the complex topic into the appropriate context and give them the basis to grasp what I'm trying to convey.

The other possibility is that the students do have the ability to grasp the concept but are unable to understand me. In this case, it is my teaching that is is at fault. I'm not being clear, not drawing the appropriate analogies, not causing the light bulb in their heads to go off. So I need to do the same thing. Go back to basics. Find a different angle. Do something that will transfer the concept to them. If I don't or can't, then the failure is mine, not the student's.

If I might gently suggest, this could be part of the problem. The arguments that you make and the articles/essays/commentary that you provide are not aimed at a general audience. As you have noted yourself, there is a lot of thought that has gone into your ideas, but they do not (generally) fit into the realm of mainstream Christianity. Most people (Christians and atheists) don't think at this level. But you assume that your audience has studied philosophy and theology. This is fine if you're writing to graduate level students. I don't think it will go over nearly as well if you're aiming at the audience on the typical Internet forum.
Metacrock wrote:but look when you have this little gang of nattering nabobs snapping at your heals all the time, usually about four then it builds up to six, then to ten. Its' really hard to turn off the fight back instinct. Hard to discriminate. then all atheists become the enemy. like being attacked by a pack of dogs. If one good dog is off in the corner (sorry to compare you to a dog) you can't just break away, go over pet it then back into the attack. you lash back at every dog anywhere.
I know that it's a challenge. And I do understand what you're saying. But your response causes people to take your ideas less seriously. I realize that one should have nothing to do with the other, but life isn't ideal. So if you want to go onto boards like that and get your ideas out to the 1-2% of people that might actually be able to understand them, you need to be able to ignore the back of dogs nipping at your heals. They can't really do you any harm, regardless of what they write.

hey stick around buddy. post here more often and I wont have to go to carm :mrgreen:
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LACanuck
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Re: why does religion excite hatred?

Post by LACanuck » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:22 pm

Metacrock wrote:hey stick around buddy. post here more often and I wont have to go to carm
Well, if that all it takes to keep your blood pressure down to the healthy range... :)

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Re: why does religion excite hatred?

Post by tinythinker » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:24 pm

Yeah, CARM ATH went downhill after I stopped posting on that forum. :mrgreen:
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Re: why does religion excite hatred?

Post by Metacrock » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:05 pm

tinythinker wrote:Yeah, CARM ATH went downhill after I stopped posting on that forum. :mrgreen:

there's a lot to be said for that view. Do you remember "Dan the atheist man?" You remember Kevin Lynch? Or who was that FJS? Latter he has several other names. O remember that Zeous_Apollo guy, now there was a guy who could liven up a board!

there were giants in the land. :mrgreen:
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Re: why does religion excite hatred?

Post by Metacrock » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:06 pm

LACanuck wrote:
Metacrock wrote:hey stick around buddy. post here more often and I wont have to go to carm
Well, if that all it takes to keep your blood pressure down to the healthy range... :)

:mrgreen: :ugeek: :D
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Re: why does religion excite hatred?

Post by Metacrock » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:14 pm

I new that little cretinous piece of shit was coward. Moron preice verin hasn't the brains to be on this board. the cretin who knows he's a fool
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Re: why does religion excite hatred?

Post by sgttomas » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:48 pm

LACanuck wrote:I know that you didn't mean me. As I said in a different thread, I think it would be fun to have this discussion face-to-face over a beer. But you don't get the play the victim card in this situation. You know that this has happened before. Not once, not twice but many, many times over. To keep going back to CARM, getting treated in the same manner and then lashing out as if you're surprised doesn't cut it. You know that your arguments are dense. You know that the vast majority of people are not going to bother to wade through the detail, much less be able to comprehend it if they do. You're talking to the wrong audience, hoping that they will get it. But, I'm pretty sure, you know deep down that they won't.

To compound this lack of understanding, your on-line debating style is pretty agressive. Even though my comments only rarely get past a '2' on the rudeness meter, you have (in the past) treated me in a condescending and confrontational manner. I can only imagine how you might come off to someone who doesn't have my ability to let Internet crap roll off my back.

What this comes down to, though, is that it doesn't matter what your history has been. It doesn't matter how teachers have treated you over your life. What does matter is that If you're going to enter the debating portion of an Internet forum, especially one related to religion, then you need to have a thicker skin.

As for the guy who has been acting like an asshole in this thread, it's better to drop the rhetoric and keep him off the board. I think your justified in doing so. But what's the point of calling him out the way you are? What is gained by doing so? I would assume that you've already knocked him off the board, so he shouldn't even be able to see the response. But you are just bringing yourself down to his level by reacting the way that you do.
good post.
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

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Re: why does religion excite hatred?

Post by theFool2 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:33 am

Metacrock wrote:I new that little cretinous piece of shit was coward. Moron preice verin hasn't the brains to be on this board. the cretin who knows he's a fool
;) Just off with my girl friend. You might have heard about them. They can be lots of fun!

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Re: why does religion excite hatred?

Post by Metacrock » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:39 pm

theFool2 wrote:
Metacrock wrote:I new that little cretinous piece of shit was coward. Moron preice verin hasn't the brains to be on this board. the cretin who knows he's a fool
;) Just off with my girl friend. You might have heard about them. They can be lots of fun!

that's cool
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