Being and Nonbeing

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

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Magritte
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Re: Being and Nonbeing

Post by Magritte » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:15 am

Jim B. wrote:Not all deprivations are bad. But some bad things are deprivations.
And some bad things are presences. And not all good things are either all presences or all absences. But if you're really hung up on associating presence with good and absence with evil, then you'll do the necessary nipping and tucking to maintain the analogy.
In his article "Death," Thomas Nagel uses the scenario of a man suddenly transformed into having the mental life of a three month old infant who nevertheless is perfectly content. Assuming all his needs can be met and he lives out the rest of his days perfectly content but never advancing mentally, has a bad thing happened to him? If so, what exactly is that bad thing?
Nagel's an interesting guy! He's about as controversial as Rorty, or Feyerabend. I think he has the same kind of contrarian character. I have a copy of Mind and Cosmos that I'm squaring around to reading one of these days.
Right. There has to be, or have been, a someone there in the first place. But looked at collectively, antinatalism could make sense. If the world becomes an irredeemable shit hole with utterly no hope of improvement, then not procreating could become a moral obligation because of all the suffering one is preventing.
I think it takes a lot less than utter hopelessness. Look what's happened to the Japanese birth rate. How are we ever going to have our intergalactic empire if people stop making babies whenever the economy takes a shit?
One of the hallmarks of freedom is that when you recognize someone is being intellectually dishonest or arguing with you in bad faith, you have the option to walk away without being punished, imprisoned or tortured.

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Metacrock
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Re: Being and Nonbeing

Post by Metacrock » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:18 am

Magritte wrote:
Jim B. wrote:Not all deprivations are bad. But some bad things are deprivations.
And some bad things are presences. And not all good things are either all presences or all absences. But if you're really hung up on associating presence with good and absence with evil, then you'll do the necessary nipping and tucking to maintain the analogy.


according to Augustine evil is the absence of the good, That's moral evil not just "bad things." So there is no force of moral evil there is the situation with no good in it, but there are 'bad things."

Take the psychology of a violent scum bag, like Trump. That could be said to be a "bad" nature a bad psychology, it can be negative and violent, and his acts can be acts of moral evil (like Trump) but that doesn't' mean there is a spiritual force of moral evil.
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Jim B.
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Re: Being and Nonbeing

Post by Jim B. » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:29 pm

Magritte wrote:
Jim B. wrote:Not all deprivations are bad. But some bad things are deprivations.
And some bad things are presences. And not all good things are either all presences or all absences. But if you're really hung up on associating presence with good and absence with evil, then you'll do the necessary nipping and tucking to maintain the analogy.
I wrote that some bad things are deprivations. Most are not.
Nagel's an interesting guy! He's about as controversial as Rorty, or Feyerabend. I think he has the same kind of contrarian character. I have a copy of Mind and Cosmos that I'm squaring around to reading one of these days.
Someone should ask him "What is it like to be a contrarian?" ;)
I think it takes a lot less than utter hopelessness. Look what's happened to the Japanese birth rate. How are we ever going to have our intergalactic empire if people stop making babies whenever the economy takes a shit?
But I assume that the Japanese are choosing not to have kids.

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