Being and Nonbeing

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

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Magritte
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Re: Being and Nonbeing

Post by Magritte » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:19 am

good point Mag. But my major premise is there can be no non being,
Sure. Being just is, and that's necessarily inexplicable. Nothing can have brought being into being. There are no conditions under which being can fail to exist, because there are no conditions underlying being. It's absolute and non-contingent.
That's why God is eternal, Being has to be. That original eternal state is giving and positive, so evil is deriovatiomn and it has has something to deriovate from.
Bracketing and setting aside the issue of whether being has good, bad or neutral character, if it does happen to have good character, then there's no purpose or meaning behind that. It just is good. That can't be the result of intent or design, because being itself is not a creation.
One of the hallmarks of freedom is that when you recognize someone is being intellectually dishonest or arguing with you in bad faith, you have the option to walk away without being punished, imprisoned or tortured.

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Re: Being and Nonbeing

Post by Jim B. » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:37 pm

Magritte wrote:
Bracketing and setting aside the issue of whether being has good, bad or neutral character, if it does happen to have good character, then there's no purpose or meaning behind that. It just is good. That can't be the result of intent or design, because being itself is not a creation.
Right, in the same way that if God is good, it can't be the result of intent or design. It's simply his character which he did not create.
Last edited by Jim B. on Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Being and Nonbeing

Post by Jim B. » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:43 pm

Magritte wrote:
But a deprivation is a state of affairs, something that is. It's still not nonbeing. Deprivation requires a context from which an element is missing. If there were utter and absolute nonbeing, there'd be no deprivation.
Yes, it's a state of affairs, but the evil is not. The evil would be the absence of something. It's a paradoxical thing, where goods and evils are not necessarily existing things, altho they depend on things that did exist or could have existed. Doesn't make sense to say the son I could have had is worse off for never having existed.

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Re: Being and Nonbeing

Post by Metacrock » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:07 am

Magritte wrote:
good point Mag. But my major premise is there can be no non being,
Sure. Being just is, and that's necessarily inexplicable. Nothing can have brought being into being. There are no conditions under which being can fail to exist, because there are no conditions underlying being. It's absolute and non-contingent.
That's why God is eternal, Being has to be. That original eternal state is giving and positive, so evil is deriovatiomn and it has has something to deriovate from.
Bracketing and setting aside the issue of whether being has good, bad or neutral character, if it does happen to have good character, then there's no purpose or meaning behind that. It just is good. That can't be the result of intent or design, because being itself is not a creation.

but ot's not a brute fact. there is a purpose. The purpose is beings own purpose. no your assertion is wromng, There can be purpose behind it,m that is being's purpose,. Being is not suibstancei t;s' not material it's not energy it's mind, mind has purpose. the purpos ios love. Love is thie real stopping point, But love and being areclosely linked.
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Re: Being and Nonbeing

Post by Jim B. » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:37 pm

Metacrock wrote: but ot's not a brute fact. there is a purpose. The purpose is beings own purpose. no your assertion is wromng, There can be purpose behind it,m that is being's purpose,. Being is not suibstancei t;s' not material it's not energy it's mind, mind has purpose. the purpos ios love. Love is thie real stopping point, But love and being areclosely linked.
How would one know this independent of a belief in God as depth of being?

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