Epicurean cosmologocal argument

[Jim B.]

how can you have prescription without purpose? let's definev its "the action of laying down authoritative rules or directions" what's the authority?
...

Arguing by dictionary definitions? I can find definitions that are neutral on the issue.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... escriptive
Relating to the imposition or enforcement of a rule or method

What authority do you think is required here? Do you think God punishes naughts atoms who do not obey the rules? I think you are confusing the laws of nature with the laws of the land, Metacrock. There are important differences!

Imposition or enforcement of a rule or standard implies purpose, unless it's meant metaphorically. But if it's metaphorical, then the laws would really be descriptive rather than prescriptive.

If God is omnipotent, the question of enforcement and punishment is irrelevant. It's not a rule in a legal/political sense, but it doesn't need to be in order to be a result of purpose.

[sgttomas]

Because you can't get prescriptiveness from purposelessness. ...

Your argument is founded on this claim, but I see no reason to suppose it is true.

What can be "true"? Do you have a category in which to fit the answer to your question?

-sgtt

[The Pixie]

Prescriptive involves the idea of purpose. So "prescriptive" would be at odds with "purposeless."

Ah, so your argument is based on an arbitrary construct of language. if we had a word for prescriptive that did not involve purpose, you would holds a different position, right?

Imposition or enforcement of a rule or standard implies purpose, unless it's meant metaphorically. But if it's metaphorical, then the laws would really be descriptive rather than prescriptive.

Again, this is just semantics making you read mire into it than is justified. There may be purpose and they may not.

If God is omnipotent, the question of enforcement and punishment is irrelevant. ...

Enforcement (in the sense of one agent ensure another obeys) and punishment is irrelevant to the laws of nature in any event.

... It's not a rule in a legal/political sense, but it doesn't need to be in order to be a result of purpose.

I agree.

[Jim B.]

Ah, so your argument is based on an arbitrary construct of language. if we had a word for prescriptive that did not involve purpose, you would holds a different position, right?

Yes, I would if we had such a word but we don't. The sounds that have been chosen to refer to things are abritrary, but I'm talking about the things the sounds refer to."Black" and "white" are arbitrarily chosen sounds too.

Again, this is just semantics making you read mire into it than is justified. There may be purpose and they may not.

Why not just say that you're not sure whether the laws are descriptive or prescriptive? I'm not sure one way or the other either.

[The Pixie]

Ah, so your argument is based on an arbitrary construct of language. if we had a word for prescriptive that did not involve purpose, you would holds a different position, right?

Yes, I would if we had such a word but we don't.

And you are okay with that? Your position is determined by an accident of language, rather than reason?

Why not just say that you're not sure whether the laws are descriptive or prescriptive? I'm not sure one way or the other either.

I am not certain, I will happily admit. But I am not sure how that relates to what we were discussing. I thought we had all agreed that they are probably prescriptive.

[Metacrock]

how can you have prescription without purpose? let's definev its "the action of laying down authoritative rules or directions" what's the authority?
...

Arguing by dictionary definitions? I can find definitions that are neutral on the issue.

I doubt it. you really want to pretend that I cant;v use the dictionary because you play with definitions

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... escriptive
Relating to the imposition or enforcement of a rule or method

Relating to the imposition or enforcement of a rule or method:
‘these guidelines are not intended to be prescriptive’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1Linguistics Attempting to impose rules of correct usage on the users of a language:
‘a prescriptive grammar book’
Often contrasted with descriptive
More example sentences
2(of a right, title, or institution) having become legally established or accepted by long usage or the passage of time:
‘a prescriptive right of way’
More example sentences

terms lie rule a d enforcement imply a mind or will. you must be the one who thinks atoms enforce, Or else don't use the term prescription, legally established requires a,law giver.



What authority do you think is required here? Do you think God punishes naughts atoms who do not obey the rules? I think you are confusing the laws of nature with the laws of the land,


thatr;s just obfuscatio
Metacrock. There are important differences!

[Metacrock]

Ah, so your argument is based on an arbitrary construct of language. if we had a word for prescriptive that did not involve purpose, you would holds a different position, right?

Yes, I would if we had such a word but we don't.

And you are okay with that? Your position is determined by an accident of language, rather than reason?

Why not just say that you're not sure whether the laws are descriptive or prescriptive? I'm not sure one way or the other either.

I am not certain, I will happily admit. But I am not sure how that relates to what we were discussing. I thought we had all agreed that they are probably prescriptive.

people choose the words they use purposely, Newton called then laws because he believedthere was a law giver. So if you don't believe it then stop using the word law.

[The Pixie]

how can you have prescription without purpose? let's definev its "the action of laying down authoritative rules or directions" what's the authority?
...

Arguing by dictionary definitions? I can find definitions that are neutral on the issue.

I doubt it. you really want to pretend that I cant;v use the dictionary because you play with definitions

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... escriptive
Relating to the imposition or enforcement of a rule or method

Relating to the imposition or enforcement of a rule or method:
‘these guidelines are not intended to be prescriptive’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1Linguistics Attempting to impose rules of correct usage on the users of a language:
‘a prescriptive grammar book’
Often contrasted with descriptive
More example sentences
2(of a right, title, or institution) having become legally established or accepted by long usage or the passage of time:
‘a prescriptive right of way’
More example sentences

terms lie rule a d enforcement imply a mind or will. you must be the one who thinks atoms enforce, Or else don't use the term prescription, legally established requires a,law giver.



What authority do you think is required here? Do you think God punishes naughts atoms who do not obey the rules? I think you are confusing the laws of nature with the laws of the land,


thatr;s just obfuscatio
Metacrock. There are important differences!

Yes, there are important differences. Somehow you fail to notice that when reaching for your dictionary.

The problem here is that we are discussing something that has no proper analogy. These are not laws in the normal sense, so of course naughty atoms do not get punished by God. Nor are they prescriptive as in the exact dictionary definition. Prescriptive is the best word, but that does not imply that every nuance of the word must necessarily apply in this case.

[The Pixie]

people choose the words they use purposely, Newton called then laws because he believedthere was a law giver. So if you don't believe it then stop using the word law.

Do you seriously think it will help our discourse if you use one word for them and I use another?

Are you incapable of using the word "law" to mean a scientific law which may not have a law giver? It is a common enough usage, at least within the scientific community.

Are you aware that language changes; for example "soon" originally meant immediately. Yes, originally "law" implied there was a law giver. The language has evolved, and now, in some contexts, it no longer does.

[Metacrock]

people choose the words they use purposely, Newton called then laws because he believedthere was a law giver. So if you don't believe it then stop using the word law.

Do you seriously think it will help our discourse if you use one word for them and I use another?

Are you incapable of using the word "law" to mean a scientific law which may not have a law giver? It is a common enough usage, at least within the scientific community.

Are you aware that language changes; for example "soon" originally meant immediately. Yes, originally "law" implied there was a law giver. The language has evolved, and now, in some contexts, it no longer does.

look man there is clearly an unalterable regularity to the physical happens of nature, you can't account for that. if go plugging in the anthropic principle it's more acute, you ca't account for the consistency of it without looking at some notion of a higher ordering principle and the mores complex the more mind it must become, Because only mind can acount for setting thing up in way that makes complexity work with precision.

We know this is so PX because I have statements by many scientists and scientifically minded philsophers stating that they rule out prescriptive laws specifically because they iply a law maker.