Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

Moderator: Metacrock

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby The Pixie on Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:17 pm

Jim B. wrote:We don't know that it does 'reside' whatever that means. We see mind correlated with physical things but that doesn't tell us much about what's really going on. A child in the 50's would say that his tv shows 'reside' in his tv set. Correlation doesn't always give us the real picture.

Actually we have pretty good evidence of that. We know injuries to the head affect the mind, and we can see different parts of the brain light up in fMRI as the mind is used in different ways.
The Pixie
 
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby Jim B. on Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:49 pm

The Pixie wrote:
Jim B. wrote:We don't know that it does 'reside' whatever that means. We see mind correlated with physical things but that doesn't tell us much about what's really going on. A child in the 50's would say that his tv shows 'reside' in his tv set. Correlation doesn't always give us the real picture.

Actually we have pretty good evidence of that. We know injuries to the head affect the mind, and we can see different parts of the brain light up in fMRI as the mind is used in different ways.


Yes, of correlations like I said, just like I can manipulate my tv set and alter the tv show. I can even make the show appear and go away.
Jim B.
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:36 am

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby met on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:05 pm

The Pixie wrote:
met wrote:Even physical minds display some neuroplasticity. ....

What if universal mind that is more like a quantum computer?

It is not. All the minds we know reside in a physical structure, therefore it must follow that all minds do.


That's ridiculous! Well, to the extent that quantum spaces aren't "physical structures", at least.

Do you deny the possibility of AI? Or deny the possibilities of quantum computers operating on switches based on the properties of entangled quantum particles ?

Research in both areas is developing....
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton
User avatar
met
 
Posts: 2797
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby The Pixie on Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:08 am

met wrote:That's ridiculous! Well, to the extent that quantum spaces aren't "physical structures", at least.

I guess that depends on how we define "physical structures". I mean an ordered and specific array of atoms, so my posts should be read in that light.
Do you deny the possibility of AI? Or deny the possibilities of quantum computers operating on switches based on the properties of entangled quantum particles ?

No I do not. How do you think either impacts on my argument?
The Pixie
 
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby Jim B. on Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:35 am

How are you defining the word "physical"?
Jim B.
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:36 am

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby The Pixie on Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:53 am

Jim B. wrote:How are you defining the word "physical"?

In this context, I mean made of atoms.
The Pixie
 
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby met on Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:48 am

The Pixie wrote:
met wrote:That's ridiculous! Well, to the extent that quantum spaces aren't "physical structures", at least.

I guess that depends on how we define "physical structures". I mean an ordered and specific array of atoms, so my posts should be read in that light.
Do you deny the possibility of AI? Or deny the possibilities of quantum computers operating on switches based on the properties of entangled quantum particles ?

No I do not. How do you think either impacts on my argument?


It opens the possibility of a constructed (partially) nonlocal, nonphysical (by your definition) distributed mind ... even tho it would still need physical interface(s)... think of Neuromancer, but in spades
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton
User avatar
met
 
Posts: 2797
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby The Pixie on Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:54 pm

met wrote:
The Pixie wrote:... How do you think either impacts on my argument?

It opens the possibility of a constructed (partially) nonlocal, nonphysical (by your definition) distributed mind ... even tho it would still need physical interface(s)... think of Neuromancer, but in spades

Okay. And how do you think either impacts on my argument?
The Pixie
 
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby met on Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:34 pm

What are you talking about?

... that your argument was lame and invalid to start with?

It is not. All the minds we know reside in a physical structure, therefore it must follow that all minds do.


"All the crows we know are black, therefore it follows that all crows are!"

:o

Are you serious?
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton
User avatar
met
 
Posts: 2797
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: Mind is the best organizing principle we know.

Postby The Pixie on Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:52 pm

met wrote:What are you talking about?

... that your argument was lame and invalid to start with?

It is not. All the minds we know reside in a physical structure, therefore it must follow that all minds do.


"All the crows we know are black, therefore it follows that all crows are!"

At last! Yes, my argument was lame and invalid to start with. It was parodying the argument in the OP, and I was hoping people would have spotted that two pages ago.

"All the crows we know are black, therefore it follows that all crows are!"

"All the minds we know are in physical structures, therefore it follows that all minds are!"

"All the organisation we see comes from minds, therefore it follows that all organisation does!"

They are all nonsense.
The Pixie
 
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:54 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Adventure of Faith (Religion/Spirituality)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests