What is hell?

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

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met
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Re: What is hell?

Post by met » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:14 pm

Oh sorry, it's the same guy as in my sig, Dr Ward Blanton .... Religious studies scholar, can't remember where he teaches offhand, some big time university, but he's both funny and thoughtful....
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

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Re: What is hell?

Post by Metacrock » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:10 pm

The Pixie wrote:
Jim B. wrote:I'm not sure I believe that hell is a literal place or even a condition. It might be a metaphor for irrevocable separation from God or for annihilation.
This has become a popular belief in Christianity recently as sensibilitiers have changed. Nowadays the idea of eternal torture is considered morally wrong, so many Christians have redefined hell to make it more acceptable, so God is not morally culpable for the torture of billions. Thus Christianity reflects a difference in human thinking, rather than the divine.
did you not read my essay on the evolution o the god concept?revelation can work through graduation evolutionary process of discovery. That augment is a double bind which is fallacious.

You also need to read my essay on why I don't believe in hell where I show the Bible never really taught hell as eternal conscious torment,
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

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Re: What is hell?

Post by The Pixie » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:55 pm

How does that all stand with Jesus talking about hell?

What happens in the afterlife is fundamental to Christianity; Jesus incarnated so people could have one afterlife rather than another. I think that is pretty universal in Christianity, right? So here we have God telling people how to get to heaven and how to avooid hell, but he never properly explained what hell is, and now his followers are not sure (in the sense that as a group they very muych disagree; obviously each individual is dogmatically convinced his opinion is right).

The very fact that Christians disagree so much on a fundamental belief proves that some of them must be wrong about some of their fundamental beliefs, and once we have established that, it is a short step to wondering whether all their beliefs are wrong.

Furthermore, we have to wonder at the abilities of a supposed god who cannot even keep even the fundamental beliefs of his followers straight.

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Re: What is hell?

Post by met » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:52 pm

Sometimes, you display a rather shallow background for someone who wants to make big swweeping comments about a very old, and very complex phenomena like "xianity" (if there even is such a thing). But anyway, Christ actually talks about Gehenna - a complicated & interpretable image that sometimes is believed to refer to "the garbage dump" - so u better read Meta's article for a start....

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Gehenna
The very fact that Christians disagree so much on a fundamental belief proves some of them must be wrong about some of their fundamental beliefs, and once we have established that, it is a short step to wondering whether all their beliefs are wrong.

Furthermore, we have to wonder at the abilities of a supposed god who cannot even keep even the fundamental beliefs of his followers straight.
Not that (as I said above) I think there's enough similarity among so-called "Xian" subgroups to even define a "big tent Xianity" as a single monolithic thing that's critique-able by peeps like you, But if the Scriptures are unclear on this - and they are - why is that a "fundamental belief"? Because you think God "should" reveal in the Scriptures what YOU wanna know? (Then again, so do a lot of so-called Xians....)
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

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Re: What is hell?

Post by The Pixie » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:36 pm

met wrote:Sometimes, you display a rather shallow background for someone who wants to make big swweeping comments about a very old, and very complex phenomena like "xianity" (if there even is such a thing). But anyway, Christ actually talks about Gehenna - a complicated & interpretable image that sometimes is believed to refer to "the garbage dump" - so u better read Meta's article for a start....

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Gehenna
Are you claiming Jesus said bad people go to a valley southwest of Jerusalem when they die? I guess not, but cannot think what else your point is here.
Not that (as I said above) I think there's enough similarity among so-called "Xian" subgroups to even define a "big tent Xianity" as a single monolithic thing that's critique-able by peeps like you, But if the Scriptures are unclear on this - and they are - why is that a "fundamental belief"? Because you think God "should" reveal in the Scriptures what YOU wanna know? (Then again, so do a lot of so-called Xians....)
If God wants people to understand his message then, well, he needs to explain what it is. The point of the Bible is supposedly for God to communicate to mankind. You seem to be saying he has failed.

What is the big message of the Bible according to Christianity? I thought it was that we are all sinners bound for hell unless we find God through Jesus. Am I wrong?

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Re: What is hell?

Post by met » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:45 am

Your lack of imagination in interpreting Christ's image is your essential problem from my point of view....

The " big message" in the Scriptures? It is couched in narratives & poetic forms & song lyrics & personal letters mostly. What does that say about it to you? Are those proper forms for a legalistic and easily delineated message full of simple, ritual obligations that lead in obvious ways to blessings?

But why should it be that, in your view? "How to score a C- and sneak into heaven" - is that the message you believe God needs to deliver?

Moreover, why does the prophetic tradition itself, with which Jesus was aligned, not accentuate the correct performance of rituals - and constantly demand better performances of rituals - why is it more concerned with (as someone might say) "deeper" aspects of "doing God's will?"
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

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