Christianity and Buddhism

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

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ZAROVE
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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by ZAROVE » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:06 pm

A buddhist would need Salvation for the same reason we all do. To be freed from hsi sin and their consequences.

From a Christian perspective, Salvation is somethign everyone needs.

A Buddhist can eaisly appriciate this theme, since Buddhism itseld sees this life as suffering and illusion, and a trap for their souls.

THey cna see, then, in Christianity a Vehicle to escape the doom that is this world and reach Salvaiton,

Incedentlaly Nirvana is not a state of midn you acheive whilst on this Earth. Nirvana is the stage of total seperaiton from all material concerns, and woudl have to accompany loss of a Physical form.


That said, a Buddhist woudl want Salvation for the same reaosns anyoen else would, to be free of the burden of sin, and dispare.

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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by Quizalufagus » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:57 pm

But if one attains Nirvana, why would salvation matter?
Scientology is a dangerous cult.

ZAROVE
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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by ZAROVE » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:11 pm

A buddhist may see Salvation as either a means to Nirvana, or else a mean to Enlightenment and thus Nirvana. Or, they may decide that ultimate annihilation or eternal misuy aren't the only choices, and decide on somethign other that they see as Better. Eternal life with the Saviour in a glorified state.

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Metacrock
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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by Metacrock » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:33 am

Hazard wrote:Hi Metacrock.
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44).

Many are called mate, few are chosen. Why? because they refuse to believe. Even the disciples were upbraided by Christ, not for their lack of understanding, but because of their unbelief!

"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen" (Mark 16:14).

"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." (John 6:65-66).

Hay, see that? disciples turned and walked with Him no more John 6;66. 666,ironic! Never noticed that before. Not that this is anythig to do with believing or not.

Haz.

you are talking about being saved. I'm talking bout meditation.
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Metacrock
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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by Metacrock » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:34 am

ZAROVE wrote:A buddhist may see Salvation as either a means to Nirvana, or else a mean to Enlightenment and thus Nirvana. Or, they may decide that ultimate annihilation or eternal misuy aren't the only choices, and decide on somethign other that they see as Better. Eternal life with the Saviour in a glorified state.

what is misuy? what religion believes in that? :mrgreen:

if that is a typo I am not making fun.
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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by Metacrock » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:35 am

Quizalufagus wrote:But if one attains Nirvana, why would salvation matter?
some people may believe the are one and the same.
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tinythinker
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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by tinythinker » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:36 pm

Metacrock wrote:man I don't know. my question is, why would anyone be a Buddhist when he could be a Taoist?

The east doesn't make those kind of distinctions as much. They are not hung up on "I'm a this ist" I"m I that ist." In Japan and even in China you have people who are Buddhists and Taoists at the same time.
Which is why I was wondering about the emphasis on the concept of conversion. Well said (although that does not mean that there are no doctrinal or practice-based disputes within or between Dharmic/Taoist traditions).



Quizalufagus wrote:Why would a Buddhist need or want salvation?
Buddhists seek salvation too - the Four Noble Truths reveal what they are seeking salvation from and affirm that such liberation is possible. They do not frame it in terms of a Creator Being and separation from Him (sin), but rather in terms of an Ultimate Reality or Truth of Reality and the illusion of separation from it. But in both cases, whether defined and described as sin or as delusion, there is the notion of the false view of self which causes suffering and there is the notion of overcoming this false sense of self and finding liberation through realizing one's intimate connection with/as a part of the limitless potential of Ultimate Reality (or in the Christian view, of "God"). For example, we can read in Matthew 16:24-25, "Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.' " From a contemplative Christian perspective, the self being denied here is the fasle view of self, and hence so long as one clings to that she loses (awareness of/reconciliation to) her true self. The same is true in Buddhism. The more we cling to that which we feel we can possess, including a permanent sense of an independently existing self, the farther we are from a full and meaningful expression of our life. In both Christianity and in Buddhism, if one truly actualizes this principle rather than just giving intellectual assent, then sacrificing even one's body to help others is seen as a pure and meritorious act. But as Paul reminds Christians (and as similar Buddhist sutras and commentaries remind Buddists), "If I speak in human or angelic tongues, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body [to hardship or even martyrdom] that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing" (1 Corinthians 13:1-3). Love here is not romance or paternal affection, but agape (or in Latin, caritas), which I think was accurately described in a song by the Fab Four as "limitless undying love which shines around me like a millions suns and calls me on and on, across the Universe." In Buddhism, this corresponds to the heart of (a/the) Buddha, which exhibits the Four Immeasurables (Loving-Kindness, Compassion, Equanimity, and Sympathetic Joy) in boundless supply.


Metacrock wrote:
Quizalufagus wrote:But if one attains Nirvana, why would salvation matter?
some people may believe the are one and the same.
Indeed.
Adrift in the endless river

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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by Theognosis » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:38 pm

Quizalufagus wrote:Pretend for a moment that I'm a Buddhist seeking Nirvana (i.e., perfect Buddhist enlightenment). Is there anything to motivate me to convert to Christianity? If so, what?
One answer: Hesychasm. I've mentioned this on the other thread, and you might have missed it.

Anyway, the Watchful Gate site (http://strannik.com/watchful_gate/) has all the answers you need on the subject of Buddhism and Christianity. There are several personal stories coming from people who have actually converted (see http://strannik.com/watchful_gate/node/4). You may be delighted to know that some of today's well-known Eastern Orthodox monks are in fact former Buddhists.

http://strannik.com/watchful_gate/node/43
Now as to why someone moves from Buddhism to Orthodoxy - everyone's story
is different - some are miraculous - some are frightening - some are
fairly ordinary. But a common denominator seems to be that; if a person
has even the smallest history of knowledge of Christ before becoming a
Buddhist, then even the smallest of such impressions, even from early
childhood, will cause a Buddhist to reach a point beyond which they cannot
grow as a Buddhist. There are Buddhist practices which serve to "open the
heart". Such a practice will often not work for one whose heart has been
visited even briefly by Christ - their heart will open only for Him. More
than one Buddhist has caught himself chanting a mantra that he or she had
previously chanted over 100,000 times, that somehow, one day turns into
"Lord have mercy". And He does have mercy!

Fr. Seraphim Rose, also a convert from Buddhism to Orthodox Christianity,
said of Buddhism, "It's fine as far as it goes, but it does not go far
enough".


I've also found a short study on the subject written by a Japanese. You'll be surprised that even those who have little knowledge of Orthodoxy are willing to give Hesychasm a try.

http://www.iop.or.jp/0717/yamazaki.pdf
The idea of deification in the tradition of the eastern theology is one
that is easy to relate to for Buddhists. I think it is a common feature of
both the eastern theology and Buddhism to have the unity of the transcendent
with the human as a central theme and to see the transcendent
inside of the self. Research of the eastern theology has just begun in
Japan. When we deepen this research further, based on the research of
Lossky and Meyendorff, the unknown world of the human being will be
unlocked. Then, we can advance to a new stage of dialogue between
Christianity and Buddhism.

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Metacrock
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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by Metacrock » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:38 pm

Theognosis wrote:
Quizalufagus wrote:Pretend for a moment that I'm a Buddhist seeking Nirvana (i.e., perfect Buddhist enlightenment). Is there anything to motivate me to convert to Christianity? If so, what?
One answer: Hesychasm. I've mentioned this on the other thread, and you might have missed it.

Anyway, the Watchful Gate site (http://strannik.com/watchful_gate/) has all the answers you need on the subject of Buddhism and Christianity. There are several personal stories coming from people who have actually converted (see http://strannik.com/watchful_gate/node/4). You may be delighted to know that some of today's well-known Eastern Orthodox monks are in fact former Buddhists.

http://strannik.com/watchful_gate/node/43
Now as to why someone moves from Buddhism to Orthodoxy - everyone's story
is different - some are miraculous - some are frightening - some are
fairly ordinary. But a common denominator seems to be that; if a person
has even the smallest history of knowledge of Christ before becoming a
Buddhist, then even the smallest of such impressions, even from early
childhood, will cause a Buddhist to reach a point beyond which they cannot
grow as a Buddhist. There are Buddhist practices which serve to "open the
heart". Such a practice will often not work for one whose heart has been
visited even briefly by Christ - their heart will open only for Him. More
than one Buddhist has caught himself chanting a mantra that he or she had
previously chanted over 100,000 times, that somehow, one day turns into
"Lord have mercy". And He does have mercy!

Fr. Seraphim Rose, also a convert from Buddhism to Orthodox Christianity,
said of Buddhism, "It's fine as far as it goes, but it does not go far
enough".


I've also found a short study on the subject written by a Japanese. You'll be surprised that even those who have little knowledge of Orthodoxy are willing to give Hesychasm a try.

http://www.iop.or.jp/0717/yamazaki.pdf
The idea of deification in the tradition of the eastern theology is one
that is easy to relate to for Buddhists. I think it is a common feature of
both the eastern theology and Buddhism to have the unity of the transcendent
with the human as a central theme and to see the transcendent
inside of the self. Research of the eastern theology has just begun in
Japan. When we deepen this research further, based on the research of
Lossky and Meyendorff, the unknown world of the human being will be
unlocked. Then, we can advance to a new stage of dialogue between
Christianity and Buddhism.

brilliant man! now exaplain for the non seminarian what the Hessecastes were. I know all about it, of course, bu the don't.
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Hazard
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Re: Christianity and Buddhism

Post by Hazard » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:24 am

Metacrock wrote:
Hazard wrote:Hi Metacrock.
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44).

Many are called mate, few are chosen. Why? because they refuse to believe. Even the disciples were upbraided by Christ, not for their lack of understanding, but because of their unbelief!

"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen" (Mark 16:14).

"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." (John 6:65-66).

Hay, see that? disciples turned and walked with Him no more John 6;66. 666,ironic! Never noticed that before. Not that this is anythig to do with believing or not.

Haz.

you are talking about being saved. I'm talking bout meditation.
Yeh, I know mate and I'm with you no worries. I'm still hung up on the original question;
"Pretend for a moment that I'm a Buddhist seeking Nirvana (i.e., perfect Buddhist enlightenment). Is there anything to motivate me to convert to Christianity? If so, what?"
. I'm thinking, if a dude is happy Buddhist, doing his thing,seeking nivia cream for his sore extremities, unless he is drawn by the Father, ( as the Scriptures teach), why would he even ask anyone to talk them into anything, let alone Christianity. He can't be a very happy Buddhist if he's asking the question is there anything better in Christianity than what I'm into which will motivate me to convert to it. The question to me is a strange or difficult one. I reckon its not an easy thing being a Christin in this world these days anyway! And whos job is it to convert anyone? I believe its God's job to call people which he does, and then its up to those he calles, when He calles them to make up their own minds.

Its like a Christian coming on site, or anyother for that matter, Devil worshipers for example, and saying; Lets pretend for a monent Im a happy Christian seeking total fulfilment of the Holy Spirit so that I have all nine gifts of the Holy Spirit. Is there anything to motiovate me to convert to Santanism? If so, what? Mate, I dont understand all that meditation stuff. I understand seriously thinking about things, but going into trans is beyond me.

Haz.

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