why are atheists like they are?

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

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Metacrock
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why are atheists like they are?

Post by Metacrock » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:13 pm

Take Jesus mythers. This guy on carm admits that two indepdnetn mentions in history is enough to prove someone existed. I show 53 independent mentions of Jesus (counting lost gospels) and yet he still claims I have pretended no evidence of any value.


they never learn and they love to say the same stuff over and over again.
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ZAROVE
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Re: why are atheists like they are?

Post by ZAROVE » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:49 pm

I'd assume the Atheist tries the standard tried and tru excuses.

1: The Bible doens't count as it was writtne by his followers.

2: Lost Gospels where after the time of Jesus so don't count, they are just writting about the Myths they had heard.

3: Regarding the NEw TEstament again, they are aso late-dated and thus just rrepeat the myth as told.

4: Tacituc and Josephus cannot be reliable. Tacitus just mentns Christiands ds and the Josephus refeence is a fake. (Never midn that there are TWO rferences, and the "fake' is only edited, not wholly invented.)


5: Myths exist such as the event sin Homers Trojan War so this must be the same sort of hting.


ect...

Really they just want to vcling to a preset conclusion. But hten again, so do lots of others form other backgrounds. Its just more annoygn wwith those hwo want to denegrate nayoen who has a Religious beelif, as they define the term to exclude themselves, and endlesly speak fo how they use only logic, reason, and critical thikking, and then coem u with such Gibberish.

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Hazard
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Re: why are atheists like they are?

Post by Hazard » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:22 pm

Athiests are against nearly everything, there like catholic monkies in a zoo.
One day the zoo-keeper noticed that the orangutan was reading two books - the Bible and Darwin's Origin of Species. Surprised, he asked the ape, "Why are you reading both those books?" "Well," said the orangutan, "I just wanted to know if I was my brother's keeper or my keeper's brother."

Catholics are against abortions and homosexuals but, I can't think of anyone who has less abortions than homosexuals!

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Re: why are atheists like they are?

Post by unred typo » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:09 pm

LOL...Haz, that belongs in Meta's joke page. In fact, i think most of our posts belong in other threads or forums. I think we have got to start paying attention to what the OPs are! (*insert oops smilie*)i don't think any of our threads are on topic. :? :mrgreen: Good thing Meta is pretty easy goin... I hope....
The truth will stand with you but man-made doctrines will melt away like cowards in the battle.

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Re: why are atheists like they are?

Post by Metacrock » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:17 pm

unred typo wrote:LOL...Haz, that belongs in Meta's joke page. In fact, i think most of our posts belong in other threads or forums. I think we have got to start paying attention to what the OPs are! (*insert oops smilie*)i don't think any of our threads are on topic. :? :mrgreen: Good thing Meta is pretty easy goin... I hope....

ahahha so few ever are. look at any message board. atheists are so hard to figure. they will go "well are you still having delusions about your little sky pixie." so you "you are ignorant" they say "O Christians are so rude, how can you have any love and be so insulting?" It just never dawns on them that anyone could be offended by their tone and their attitude, which is crap.
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unred typo
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Re: why are atheists like they are?

Post by unred typo » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:28 pm

Hei, meta... you must know some really nasty atheists. i only met a few and most of them I think we just atheist wanna-bees and actually agnostic. They seemed to really want to believe but just were afraid or something... or they just didn't like fundies and couldn't stomach that they might be right... which I tend to agree with them on that on some major points. My atheist experience was quite different. They were more polite and kinder than the 'christians' who were debating with them. :?
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Re: why are atheists like they are?

Post by Metacrock » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:28 pm

unred typo wrote:Hei, meta... you must know some really nasty atheists. i only met a few and most of them I think we just atheist wanna-bees and actually agnostic. They seemed to really want to believe but just were afraid or something... or they just didn't like fundies and couldn't stomach that they might be right... which I tend to agree with them on that on some major points. My atheist experience was quite different. They were more polite and kinder than the 'christians' who were debating with them. :?

yea I have kown some nasty atheists. I've known some neat one's too. Some real good ones are signed up here but they don't post enough.
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Re: why are atheists like they are?

Post by LACanuck » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:40 am

I'm not a Jesus myther, but for the sake of argument, let me present (at least some) of their view on the evidence. I almost used the term "devil's advocate", but the irony was too great. ;)

I followed the conversation on CARM regarding this and it seemed to me that some of the arguments were going past one another. I'll start by considering the mentions of Jesus by Josephus. There are basically two of them. The first, the Testimonium Flavious, is notoriously controversial, having been appeared to be greatly modified over the years. I'm sure we all know about the problems and it's not worth dwelling on them now (although I'm happy to, if someone wants to take it on). The second, and the apparantly more reliable, source mentions James as being the brother of Jesus who was crucified.

So my question (and the one I believe the poster on CARM tried to get out, and didn't do a good job of it) is, how do either of these references show that there was a Jesus who wandered around Galilee preaching the message of God? In other words, Josephus indicates that a Jesus existed who was crucified. But Josephus doesn't say that this Jesus was a wandering preacher of any sort. The only real mention is that a Jesus was crucified. From an historical perspective, there is no apparent connection between the Jesus who is mentioned by Josephus and the Jesus stories that appear in the bible. In other words, Josephus does not eliminate the possibility that the stores that exist in the bible are a collection of myths and legends about a person or people who is not the same Jesus that Josephus said was crucified.

Ok. Have at me. :)

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Re: why are atheists like they are?

Post by ZAROVE » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:27 am

Thats a bit convoluted.

Its liek sayign that referneces to Caeser from different Codexes do not rpove it was the Julius Caeser.


In my view, the Second reference proves the first. I have read Testemonium, and have on my computer rmeoved the "Forged" segment, and unliek what the typical Myther says, the text doesn't flow evently if it is removed.

Likewise, the second reference makes no snece withotut he first. Josephus expects his reader to know ho JEsus was, and it is obvious int he second reference that this Jesus was well known.

Most Scholars think that the Josephus Refeence wasn't actually completley forged, simply edited.

We have, for instance, an old Aramic copy that is disfferent form the Greek text, and omit smuch of the flowery praise to Jesus.

As for the rest, we know the Jeus in Josephus has nothign that contradicts the oen we find inthe COmpelation fo CHristain writtings, formt he NEw TEstament to other owrks. We know that this HJesus had a BRother named James, and was Crucified, and was a teacher.

We know he was acused of rebellion, and htis is why he was Crucified.

This hardly contradicts the given evidence, and woudl strongly imply that its the same person.

Any attmot o argue otherwise is chasing shadows.

The Jesus Myth is a conveneint theory, though, for those who find ebunkign Christianity a calling online. It helps to destory Christianity at its core. If Jesus never existed, then obviously Christainity is a sham. Yet, I find that the overwhelmign concensus of Scholarhsip in the area disagrees, and with good reason.

Of ocurse, Consensus is not evidnece, btu you have to wonder why the consensus thinks as it doe sin modenr academia which is often hostile to Christain beleif.

THe movement emerged and spread rapidly int he Ancient orld, much more rapidly tan a Mystery religion does. No one ever challenged Jesus's existanc in the firts century, or early second. We have numerous writtigns inthe form of the New Testament, and outside, noncannonical writtings, form early on. THe sotry fo his life is consistant.

It seems , as far as Ancient hstory is concenred, to be overwhelming.

Look at ehat we have for Socrates.Plato and thats it.

It just seems daft tothink Jesus di't exist.

Especaly if they take the usual route and try to link him with other Saviour gods who lead idenitcal lives.

Horus the Crucified makes a nice book cover, but poor Egyptology.

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Re: why are atheists like they are?

Post by tinythinker » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:17 pm

On the general topic, I do think some people know they are being obnoxious, but it's OK because they are on the "right side". Others just don't see the hostility they are giving off. I have no interest in trying to approximate, based on 10+ years of anecdotal evidence from some of the most high-traffic and high volatility message boards concerned with these issues, what percentage of this or that group were "A-holes". I will just say the percentages for both self-identified Christians and atheists would be very, very high. I recognize that at one point I was somewhat hostile and trying to start silly arguments with theists, but compared to the nasty Christians and sometimes nastier atheists, I saw myself as being pretty reasonable. When most of what you read are smart-ass comments, or posts with a serious dose of self-satisfaction concerning the intellectual superiority of the author (including some cases of self-infatuation), or posts which are written by someone who can barely string two or three words together in a coherent sentence, you may tend to become frustrated, hostile, and arrogant. Especially when the posts are filled with smart-assed comments by someone who think she or he is a genius but who can barely form complete sentences (I never said those features of a post were mutually exclusive).

There seems to be a need on the part of many people who visit some discussion boards to inflict their views on others rather than to share them (for example see the less than charitable response I received at CARM a while back for giving thoughtful consideration to Christianity; it is ironic because when I used to post regularly several years ago I was considered to be firmly in the atheist/religion-is-for-dummies camp). It's virtually impossible to avoid at least one angry or belittling response on some boards. I don't think most people who make insulting replies would really treat people that way face to face. I think it is a result of the perception of anonymity combined with immaturity, overblown egos, and the prevailing environment of hostility found on many forums. I am just grateful for the thoughtful and friendly folks I can find, whatever their views may be.
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