love is not bad leadership

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

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Metacrock
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love is not bad leadership

Post by Metacrock » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:08 pm

I am pissed as hell. I got in a group called "apologia" on yahoo groups because it read like it was an intellectual discussion. But there was this little athiest troll who was about as nasty as they come. he was totally disrupting the group. I told him off and a whole bunch of them got on my case. "you are not being loving." But I got angry and left the group. It was not what I was looking for. I've had enough of that little ridicule trip to last a life time. i don't need any more of that.

they were doing the little ssisy for Jesus thing. I just love to abused for jesus.

I wish I had not lost my temper. I guess they have a point after all.But in allowing the troll to undermine the discussion they are not being loving, they are being unloving because they are allowing this one unruly child to learn that he can get away with inflicting his whims on others and they are killing the group for those who want to enjoy a discussion.
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ZAROVE
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Re: love is not bad leadership

Post by ZAROVE » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:19 pm

Its the sad thing about Christians Im afraid. hey either htink that love means takign abuse, or else think that it requires them never ot listen to alternate views. I usually wind up banned because of the Christians in a group disaproving of my approach.

But as for Atheists, my recent run in has the same-old arugments. I've learend not to get mad, but to stay my ground.

On IMDb, int he Zeitgist forum, I'm now debating two. One is known as DarkReign, and the other Rowan Morrison. Rowan insists that he has no beleifs at all, just knowledge, and that Secular Humanism is not a Religion.

He seems ot think that Religion means elif in a deity of soem sort.

He laso seems not to graps that anythign you accept as true is a beleif, and that you cna't not have beelifs and funciton int eh real world. He thinks Knowledge of truth is nto beleif, which is absurd. A Beleif is simply a mental act of acceptance of the truthfulness of soemthing.

He tried th eold "Kettle" metaphore. He doens't ebelive a Kettle is bpiling, he sees it boil thus knows it is boiling. Sell, unfortnatley, even knowledge gained direclty leads ot beleif, since beleif is mental ascent to the truth of something.


DarkRiegn thinks one cannot be Scientific and relgiious and religious people do not think about solutions ot queasitosn about hwo the Unvierse works.

Its all rather amusing in its innaccuracy.


I'd not le tthme get you down, they always pretentiously claim mental superiority, but its harldy somehtign o ruffle our feathers over.

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ChumpChange
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Re: love is not bad leadership

Post by ChumpChange » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:53 am

Ha. I got banned from this silly little atheist site once because I lost my temper. Atheist seem to think that if your a christian then your not allowed to argue. They will sit there and antagonize the hell out of you and the second you get a little frustrated they pull the tolerance card. "Well obviously you cant tolerate anything that opposes your view" they''ll say. They like to think that if one christian looses his temper then the whole religion is rotten. Most of these people arent even there to have a real conversation they just like to make big arguments out of little insignificant details which usually have nothing to do with the topic.
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KR Wordgazer
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Re: love is not bad leadership

Post by KR Wordgazer » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:44 am

I don't think it's love to allow someone to insult and abuse others. It also doesn't do the argument any good. When you do your best to address an argument, and instead of answering you, the other person just calls your intelligence, morals, and character into question, all reasonable discussion ceases.

The thing is that our Lord himself sometimes came out quite harshly against the practices of certain groups of people. There is a time and place for that. "Turn the other cheek" doesn't mean, "Be a doormat." Jesus was never a doormat.
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Metacrock
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Re: love is not bad leadership

Post by Metacrock » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:12 pm

ZAROVE wrote:Its the sad thing about Christians Im afraid. hey either htink that love means takign abuse, or else think that it requires them never ot listen to alternate views. I usually wind up banned because of the Christians in a group disaproving of my approach.

But as for Atheists, my recent run in has the same-old arugments. I've learend not to get mad, but to stay my ground.

On IMDb, int he Zeitgist forum, I'm now debating two. One is known as DarkReign, and the other Rowan Morrison. Rowan insists that he has no beleifs at all, just knowledge, and that Secular Humanism is not a Religion.

He seems ot think that Religion means elif in a deity of soem sort.

He laso seems not to graps that anythign you accept as true is a beleif, and that you cna't not have beelifs and funciton int eh real world. He thinks Knowledge of truth is nto beleif, which is absurd. A Beleif is simply a mental act of acceptance of the truthfulness of soemthing.

He tried th eold "Kettle" metaphore. He doens't ebelive a Kettle is bpiling, he sees it boil thus knows it is boiling. Sell, unfortnatley, even knowledge gained direclty leads ot beleif, since beleif is mental ascent to the truth of something.


DarkRiegn thinks one cannot be Scientific and relgiious and religious people do not think about solutions ot queasitosn about hwo the Unvierse works.

Its all rather amusing in its innaccuracy.


I'd not le tthme get you down, they always pretentiously claim mental superiority, but its harldy somehtign o ruffle our feathers over.

so he believes he has no beliefs. brilliant!
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Re: love is not bad leadership

Post by Metacrock » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:14 pm

KR Wordgazer wrote:I don't think it's love to allow someone to insult and abuse others. It also doesn't do the argument any good. When you do your best to address an argument, and instead of answering you, the other person just calls your intelligence, morals, and character into question, all reasonable discussion ceases.

The thing is that our Lord himself sometimes came out quite harshly against the practices of certain groups of people. There is a time and place for that. "Turn the other cheek" doesn't mean, "Be a doormat." Jesus was never a doormat.

this was one of those things where he just ignored my argument, which I did explain patently four or five times. then he pulled the old "you are the believer so you have the burden of proof, so I can assert there is no God, and you have to prove there is one."

I said "in Texas we believe a man has to be prove the arguments he asserts." he so "so in Texas you believer you don't have to prove anything hu?"

then I just snapped. Is said I have wasted 10 years talking to fools like this, no more!
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Re: love is not bad leadership

Post by Metacrock » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:16 pm

ChumpChange wrote:Ha. I got banned from this silly little atheist site once because I lost my temper. Atheist seem to think that if your a christian then your not allowed to argue. They will sit there and antagonize the hell out of you and the second you get a little frustrated they pull the tolerance card. "Well obviously you cant tolerate anything that opposes your view" they''ll say. They like to think that if one christian looses his temper then the whole religion is rotten. Most of these people arent even there to have a real conversation they just like to make big arguments out of little insignificant details which usually have nothing to do with the topic.

this happens to me all the time. the atheist will say stuff like "you didn't go to graduate school you are lying and you never read a book." I'll say "you are ignorant" then go You are so insulting!
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