Re: No Longer Quivering/Take Heart Project
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:07 pm
Zarove, I have conversations about these topics on the Internet all the time. I do not get offended when someone disagrees with me. I get offended when they disrespect me. You cannot see how disrespectful your word choices are. Ok. I can respect that.
What I can't do is talk to you at all, because your tone is constantly insulting, and just saying, "I'm not insulting you" doesn't help.
Are you willing to just consider that possibly you could learn some more effective ways of communicating? You appear to think it's just fine to attribute motives to someone, and yet you dislike it when Metacrock does it to you. I am saying that attributing motives to someone else, rather than discussing the issues, is bad manners and not conducive to respectful conversation. In other words, if you want to create a hostile atmosphere, one where a person stops listening to the arguments and gets defensive-- then deciding that you know what someone's motives are, and telling them so, is the absolutely best way to go about it. And yes, I am willing to say it to both Metacrock and you, if you like-- and anyone else who falls into such behavior, including myself. When I have done it, I am wrong. I admit it, apologize, and move on.
When it comes to the issues, we disagree. One of us may be right, or the other might-- or we both might be wrong. No one has a corner on the truth except God. But though you may not realize it, the way you address the issues is still fraught with insults. Take this word "fanciful." I am not expecting you to say "brilliant exegesis." But yes, "fanciful" is an insult because rather than taking the argument seriously and showing where it is incorrect, it simply dismisses it with a belittling label-- a label that implies something negative about the person who made the argument.
You said this:
Being on the Internet is something I do for fun. THIS IS NOT FUN. So please, please stop. I don't want to have to leave this forum. But I will if I can't be here without getting involved in toxicity. (All other members, and Metacrock-- sorry. I am not saying this because I want to be a prima donna and throw a fit and threaten to leave. I'm just telling the truth. In my recovery as an adult child of alcholocs, I learned to draw boundaries, and that if boundaries were continually violated, I should leave for my own self-preservation. I am getting to that point here. This isn't worth it to me.)
What I can't do is talk to you at all, because your tone is constantly insulting, and just saying, "I'm not insulting you" doesn't help.
Are you willing to just consider that possibly you could learn some more effective ways of communicating? You appear to think it's just fine to attribute motives to someone, and yet you dislike it when Metacrock does it to you. I am saying that attributing motives to someone else, rather than discussing the issues, is bad manners and not conducive to respectful conversation. In other words, if you want to create a hostile atmosphere, one where a person stops listening to the arguments and gets defensive-- then deciding that you know what someone's motives are, and telling them so, is the absolutely best way to go about it. And yes, I am willing to say it to both Metacrock and you, if you like-- and anyone else who falls into such behavior, including myself. When I have done it, I am wrong. I admit it, apologize, and move on.
When it comes to the issues, we disagree. One of us may be right, or the other might-- or we both might be wrong. No one has a corner on the truth except God. But though you may not realize it, the way you address the issues is still fraught with insults. Take this word "fanciful." I am not expecting you to say "brilliant exegesis." But yes, "fanciful" is an insult because rather than taking the argument seriously and showing where it is incorrect, it simply dismisses it with a belittling label-- a label that implies something negative about the person who made the argument.
You said this:
You misunderstand. I have not said that I will talk about my motives with you, but not women's issues. The reason I donn't want to talk about women's issues with you is that you insist on making it be about my motives, and about belittling me-- in short, you can't do it without being insulting. So now you think as long as you don't address the issues, you can go on being insulting? You don't know my heart (ie, my motives), and no human being can know another's heart. When you say you do, that's called being judgmental. No one responds well when being judged. Not me, not you, not anyone. Unless you can stop being judgmental and belittling, I cannot continue to talk to you. I have a sense of self-preservation. I will withdraw from toxic conversations. This conversation is toxic.When I address the arguments Im usually dismissed or accused of Sexuism though. I mean you've alreayd said I cant discuss this or that, that pretty well leaves the Hebrew and your motives. Now you wan tthta removed to.
Being on the Internet is something I do for fun. THIS IS NOT FUN. So please, please stop. I don't want to have to leave this forum. But I will if I can't be here without getting involved in toxicity. (All other members, and Metacrock-- sorry. I am not saying this because I want to be a prima donna and throw a fit and threaten to leave. I'm just telling the truth. In my recovery as an adult child of alcholocs, I learned to draw boundaries, and that if boundaries were continually violated, I should leave for my own self-preservation. I am getting to that point here. This isn't worth it to me.)