Ophir's Gopher wrote:@meta
It's absurdly rash to think this is the end of anything. It's probably not even the end of Child abuse in the Catholic priesthood.
If so that's probably a good thing.Like I said, we're either in the midst of the dying or it's evolved into a shadow of what it once was. Clearly, only a liberal remnant in each major faith has a clue as to what's going on.
so you really just want to punish him because you hate the opposition?The fundies and dogmatists are in lala land. The Pope is an example of a dogmatist and the worse that religion get, even without the child abuse cover up. That's where I think you and I depart. Consider the efficacy of the Catholic church. Its head is clearly up its ass with respect to sex education and STD and pregnancy prevention in Africa and all over the world. This is not an anomaly.
Atheism is dying out. It's gone way down from 12% i the 90s to 1.5% now. That's assuming adherence.com and the Pew study. 2 billion people are Christians something 35% world wide, 3% are atheists world wide. You are vastly underrating the importance people place upon religion. those Billion people will not let Christianity die out.
Sorry, but atheism is definitely not "dying out." The number of people who declare themselves non-religious is increasing drastically.
No it's not. Look, you can't make that be true just because you want it. The most scholarly sources show its' not true. The Pew study showed 1.6% atheists in America. That's down from 2% (at least) who were communists during the cold war. So it has gone down. The figures people quote which are around 12? fail to weed out the 9% who say they believe in a higher power (God) but don't like religion.
they preventing people from listening to the truth. The are creating a lot of havoc. Just because they haven't increased the ranks of atheists drastically doesn't mean they aren't doing some bad things. Besides, remember I'm not going with the 1.5% I spot them 3% and it may be as high as 6%. That's still extremely small and it's not really growing. It have grown some over the last 10 years but not amazingly so. If it went from 3 to 6% it doubled and still pathetically small.One wonders why you dedicate so much time to lambasting the scourge of of new atheism -- the bloggers, the Harrisses, and the Hitchenses -- if atheism is rapidly dying.
But you are too youg to know what exciting times are. In my life I remember from the news media and from knowing some people where in each catasrophy I've "seen" or been around durning
coup de etat agisnst american President
Oswald killed Kennedy. He was an expert marksman (proven)and a delusional madman (proven). Conspiracy theorizing itself is a quasi-religious delusion. I say this as a former conspiracy theorist.
that's rubbish. nothing about conspiracies that requires religious thinking. I don't know why you bring up Oswald? I don't doubt that was a conspiracy. In fact I know it was.
America losing first war that the majority of it's people are aware it obviously lost
Man lands on moon!
Counter cultural movement forever changes nature of American society
end of cold
demise of communism
Berlin Wall comes down
Western Eruope experincing a boody war on it's on contenant
Mass genocides around the world (Guatemala, Bosnia, Croatia, Ruwanda)
Total absolute idiot elected President two terms in a row (two different Presidents)
First women on Sup court
First woman speaker of house
First woman to mount major presidential camapign
first two female secretaries of state
The whole woman's movement totally widely unimaginably more successful than anyone wildest dreams when it began, reversing 5,000 years of sexism.
First Black President in American History
Major U.S. city almost wiped out by flood
Volcano holds the world's air line industry hostage
Major landmark destroyed by terrorists kills 5000 people.
LOLI agree. all of this is amazing. You know what else is amazing? The self implosion of the Abrahamic religions triggered by its ignorant leadership and laity. If you don't see signs of that, I'd encourage you to look harder.
I know a lot about the classic arguments for God. They are good arguments. they immanently defensible. Nothing stupid about Craig, But Craig is not the typical fundie he's a good guy> he 's a nice guy. Ask Loftus if Craig is an asshole. Atheist author John Loftus was Craig's student. ask him.remember when you told me you know very little about christian apologetics? That's what I'm talking about. You have to scratch the surface of William Lane Craig's untenable arguments regarding evolution (for example) to even begin to see what's happening. Many other examples of such stupidity in the other religions. Young folks are getting wise to it. That's all I'm saying.
Arguments for God are good. The standard apologist is shallow and bound up on conventions so he can't argue outside the box.
you and I have no yet done the debate thing on a God argument. I'm not going back that bull shit we were doing "You can't think you are no good." You can think, you are good, not stupid. I want to be friends and I'm really sorry I fell into that shit.
when we have a real discussion on the God arguments I am not going to "beat you" I'm not going to try and show you how smart I am, not about that. but I think you will see these arguments are good ideas and have a lot of commend them.
Christianity dying out is far from one of them.
It's definitely morphing into something unrecognizable and far more liberal.
I doubt that. O am I know it will eventually. Its' done it before. A Christian Palestine in 332 would n ot recognize a Christian from England in 1242, who would not recognize a Christian in Teas in 1852 who would not understand or recognize me and I believe.
There was a time when the average popular conception of Christianity was that you had to die for your faith to go to heaven. change is not death. It doesn't' matter how it changes the reality of God is there.
That was my point all along. Perhaps these religions aren't dying. Maybe only the dogmatic/fundamentalist core is collapsing. either way, it's incredibly interesting to watch and certainly nothing to be threatened by or depressed about. This is a good thing, and I'm priveledged to see it happening.
Yea, I'll go along with that.
[/quote]Very interesting that you mentioned 9/11. The self-implosion of religion is WAY more interesting to observe than the fall of the twin towers. Religious terrorism is just the same bullshit that has happened for millenia. Nothing new or unprecedented about it at all, except for the effect it had in triggering the collapse of religion.
Atheists have propagated the myth that the motive behind 9/11 was religious and seeing it as a product of religious thinking. That's utterly stupid it proves my point about how illiterate atheists are (sorry--in some quarters). If you have studied the politics of the middle east and the Arab movement you should know religion is just a tool it is not the motive force of those guys actions. They are closer to being a product of Marxism than of religion.