How can we know what God would do?

[Metacrock]

This in general about how do we know which tradition to choose, or what God is like or what God would do? How do we determine which tradition?

we are coming at it form different perspectives. you are looking words I'm looking at deeds. I think Jesus death on the cross and resurrection speak louder than any words in the Bible. you can't play the atheist game of second guess god "what would God do?" Is a game for suckers.

you can't line up what you think God would do with what you think God is. The only way to do it is one of three or parts of all three ways:

(1) take the traditions word for it

(2) go by your own experiences

(3) use logic.


Each one of these needs to be expanded upon because by themselves they are not complete. This is reminiscent of Wesley who has some gimmick of three or four things." It's also based upon Tillich. when the tradition (and that means doctrine primary but also it's major thinkers) lines up with your own experiences and you can verify it by logic then it's valid.

[Kane Augustus]

Using what you wrote, I went by my experiences within Christianity and as a believer for 20 years. I did as best I could applying logic to uphold my beliefs when doubt starting setting in. I also held to a pretty conservative tradition, gained ordination within that tradition, and pushed myself to continue believing despite my niggling doubts.

I became an atheist.

So, how does what you wrote bear out in reality, if those who have done what you've stated ended up non-Christian and godless? There must be something more to this than the triptyc you've set out, no?

[Metacrock]

Using what you wrote, I went by my experiences within Christianity and as a believer for 20 years. I did as best I could applying logic to uphold my beliefs when doubt starting setting in. I also held to a pretty conservative tradition, gained ordination within that tradition, and pushed myself to continue believing despite my niggling doubts.

I became an atheist.

Yea but I'm guessing (no offense) while you thought you were being consistent given your background, history, personality, ect you weren't necessarily consistent in the sense that any other Christian would have to put it together the way you did. Someone with another perspective might have had another outcome.

So, how does what you wrote bear out in reality, if those who have done what you've stated ended up non-Christian and godless? There must be something more to this than the triptyc you've set out, no?

Your life is not over yet, and "non Christian" is just a label. What's really going on in your heart?

[Kane Augustus]

Yea but I'm guessing (no offense) while you thought you were being consistent given your background, history, personality, ect you weren't necessarily consistent in the sense that any other Christian would have to put it together the way you did. Someone with another perspective might have had another outcome.

This is undoubtedly true. And, in agreement with Bart Ehrman, Christians, by and large, write their own gospels through a process of construction, deconstruction, and reconstruction of the existing books. I would add to Ehrman's assessment that they [Christians] do it intuitively, and for the purpose of devotional feelings moreso than transformational living.

Your life is not over yet, and "non Christian" is just a label. What's really going on in your heart?

Thank you very much for your sincere question. I will be honest and say that pure atheism is contentless. I'm not a thorough-going atheist. My wife and I were talking about this the other night and we concluded that a simple label like "atheist" only serves to say what we don't believe. There's still a matter of what we're investigating, what we're seeking-out. Given that, it seems more accurate to say that I'm a seeker, or a quester. Applying myself to a label brings with it all the expected attachments such-and-such a label connotes. So, when a person is labelled an "atheist" (as I labelled myself earlier), that person is expected to converse, write, respond, and react in certain ways; the label serves to truncate a mass of biases, ideologies, and particular philosophical approaches.

I don't really consider myself in the same regard as those forced expectations would imply. In fact, I have enough self-limiting beliefs; I don't need the limiting beliefs of others who would assume this-or-that about me because of the label "atheist" or "agnostic" or what have you. So, in the interest of honest, and heartfelt dialogue, I'd rather describe myself with my own chosen label, "seeker." That keeps the expectations to a minimum and allows an open conversation between (hopefully) cultivated minds.

So as to what's really going on in my heart: I'm deeply interested in accumulating wisdom from all the major religious and philosophical spheres. I'm intensely interested in human creativity, inter-subjective perspectives, and the wholesome banter that -- as C.S. Lewis once reminisced -- can only be had by the fireside with old friends and good wine. My heart yearns for positive psychology and inspiring experiences, deep personal growth that can blossom up and outward and expand the joy in my life, and the life of those I encounter. That's where my heart is.

Take care, Metacrock.
Kane

[Metacrock]

Yea but I'm guessing (no offense) while you thought you were being consistent given your background, history, personality, ect you weren't necessarily consistent in the sense that any other Christian would have to put it together the way you did. Someone with another perspective might have had another outcome.

This is undoubtedly true. And, in agreement with Bart Ehrman, Christians, by and large, write their own gospels through a process of construction, deconstruction, and reconstruction of the existing books. I would add to Ehrman's assessment that they [Christians] do it intuitively, and for the purpose of devotional feelings moreso than transformational living.

what difference does that make? We usually do it in relation to what's happened in our lives. They still reflect truth.

Your life is not over yet, and "non Christian" is just a label. What's really going on in your heart?

Thank you very much for your sincere question.

I don't claim that it's sincere and I don't really want to know. It's a logical question to ask if one believes in the heart. I'm not saying I don't care about you I'm only saying I don't mean to be invasive.

I will be honest and say that pure atheism is contentless. I'm not a thorough-going atheist. My wife and I were talking about this the other night and we concluded that a simple label like "atheist" only serves to say what we don't believe. There's still a matter of what we're investigating, what we're seeking-out. Given that, it seems more accurate to say that I'm a seeker, or a quester. Applying myself to a label brings with it all the expected attachments such-and-such a label connotes. So, when a person is labelled an "atheist" (as I labelled myself earlier), that person is expected to converse, write, respond, and react in certain ways; the label serves to truncate a mass of biases, ideologies, and particular philosophical approaches.

I agree that lables get in the way of understanding. Lots of people just rule out anything I say and don't listen because I label myself "Christian." They also make political assumptions about me based upon that label, and my views on politics, while I say they are Christian most who labels themselves so say they are not.

I don't really consider myself in the same regard as those forced expectations would imply. In fact, I have enough self-limiting beliefs; I don't need the limiting beliefs of others who would assume this-or-that about me because of the label "atheist" or "agnostic" or what have you. So, in the interest of honest, and heartfelt dialogue, I'd rather describe myself with my own chosen label, "seeker." That keeps the expectations to a minimum and allows an open conversation between (hopefully) cultivated minds.

So as to what's really going on in my heart: I'm deeply interested in accumulating wisdom from all the major religious and philosophical spheres. I'm intensely interested in human creativity, inter-subjective perspectives, and the wholesome banter that -- as C.S. Lewis once reminisced -- can only be had by the fireside with old friends and good wine. My heart yearns for positive psychology and inspiring experiences, deep personal growth that can blossom up and outward and expand the joy in my life, and the life of those I encounter. That's where my heart is.

Take care, Metacrock.
Kane[/quote]

[Metacrock]

So as to what's really going on in my heart: I'm deeply interested in accumulating wisdom from all the major religious and philosophical spheres. I'm intensely interested in human creativity, inter-subjective perspectives, and the wholesome banter that -- as C.S. Lewis once reminisced -- can only be had by the fireside with old friends and good wine. My heart yearns for positive psychology and inspiring experiences, deep personal growth that can blossom up and outward and expand the joy in my life, and the life of those I encounter. That's where my heart is.

Take care, Metacrock.
Kane

that's cool. I don't think anything is more inspiring and postiive than Jesus' teachings, and also in a lesser way some mystical experiences.

I am glad if you choose to share about what's in your heart. You don't have to. I don't talk about the heart to get people to reveal things, that's between you and God. I do appreciate you sharing that.

I think you might find some of that in my book, if it ever get's out.