Be a **man** - piss standing up (against a wall)

[tinythinker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDxcyqeRc-4

[KR Wordgazer]

Sorry it took me a while to view this video, Tiny Thinker, but for some reason I couldn't get the sound to play earlier.

I'm not at all sure this doesn't belong in the "Egalitarian" subforum. You'd probably get more comments on it.

I'm amazed that this preacher has taken an ancient turn of phrase which means "a man," and has, against all proper exegetical methods, construed it to be a statement of how men are supposed to behave. I don't see any commandment or moral teaching in the passage he cites-- and yet he takes it as a moral teaching that men who don't stand up to do that particular job have become effeminate, and that the particular position men take while relieving themselves is somehow the indication of health or weakness in the society.

He also, much to my shame as an American, states categorically that whenever he goes into a culture where men don't stand up (and where there are signs requesting men not to) he's going to do it the way he wants to do it anyway. So much for respecting the cultural differences of a place where you are a guest. Ugly American, anyone?

I suppose I should laugh-- except that this guy so very clearly took the whole thing seriously. He was quite serious about his interpretation, and about how it showed that "men don't know how to be men nowadays."

It all puts me in mind of a really awful conversation I read on CARM, where a man who apparently has the same sorts of beliefs about men being men, basically said that everything in society that is logical and based on reason is masculine, and everything emotionally fluffy and mentally fuzzy is feminine. He complained that churches are getting "feminized" because (as far as I could understand him) civility, courtesy towards others who are different than us, and tolerance are being upheld as virtues in our society. Obviously the way to be a true Christian male is to deny that anyone else has any right to disagree with your particular interpretation of the Bible. To be a man is to be intolerant, and fiercely so-- and to impose your way of thinking on everyone around you.

Frankly, I feel sorry for Christian men who have this kind of thinking and behavior held up as what is expected of them.

[Metacrock]

that is something that has bothered me for years. I have to do that sitting down when I other thing at the same time. Does that make me bi sexual?


sorry, I couldn't resist. how stupid can you get!


you continue to be a font of inspiration Tiny Thinker.

[Hazard]

Try if at all possible not to piss against the wind.

Haz.

[tinythinker]

Sorry it took me a while to view this video, Tiny Thinker, but for some reason I couldn't get the sound to play earlier.

I'm not at all sure this doesn't belong in the "Egalitarian" subforum. You'd probably get more comments on it.

I didn't realize there was such a subforum when I posted it. I think you are right. I couldn't help but notice that he says that his audience hasn't liked what he has said up to the point where the video starts. I wonder what was left out? Anyway, then I started thinking that I probably look and sound ridiculous sometimes too, so while I think what he says is lame, I don't really have any ill-will towards the guy himself.

[KR Wordgazer]

Well, "you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din" - I mean Tiny Thinker. I'm really quite annoyed at the guy. The thing is that if he is really going to insist that the phrase be taken literally and as an adjuration, then men shouldn't be using toilets or even urinals. I wonder how their wives would like that, if they actually and literally used the bathroom wall? Or maybe they should'nt even be using a bathroom, but going outside and using the back of the house? I suspect that was more likely the practice at the time the phrase was penned.

As a woman, the whole "be a real man, which means don't do anything a woman would do" really bothers me. We haven't really overcome misogyny in our culture, much as we'd like to think we have.

Oh-- and welcome, Hazard! *waves* Good advice!

[tinythinker]

Well, "you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din" - I mean Tiny Thinker.

No, not at all. I'm not a better person because of what I wrote. I was being a bit selfish, thinking something like "I wonder if I look like this or sound like this sometimes when I'm lecturing." But in other cases when I don't recognize myself in someone else I can be very judgmental. I guess in this case, and unfortunately not in more cases, I really do see the difference between the person and the ignorance/arrogance (or as the Christians say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner").

I'm really quite annoyed at the guy. The thing is that if he is really going to insist that the phrase be taken literally and as an adjuration, then men shouldn't be using toilets or even urinals. I wonder how their wives would like that, if they actually and literally used the bathroom wall? Or maybe they should'nt even be using a bathroom, but going outside and using the back of the house? I suspect that was more likely the practice at the time the phrase was penned.

Oh yeah, well, if you just analyze the argument itself, it is very annoying and vacuous. By the way, for what it's worth, I found it over at the blog Real Live Preacher. He posts thought-provoking materials of all kinds. Take this example from a couple of years ago:

"Here are some signs of spiritual enlightenment:

• The embracing of paradox.
  
  The love of mystery in the presence of unanswered questions.
  
  The acceptance of your small place in reality.
  
  The willingness to engage in spiritual exercises without knowing how they will work or even what it would mean for them to work.
  
  The increase of the love, grace, forgiveness, and patience visible in your life."

The rest of the post was really good as well, but the blog was recently re-booted and apparently that material is currently in cyber-limbo (note: I did find it using the Way Back Machine - at least for now the Internet Archive has it stored here).

As a woman, the whole "be a real man, which means don't do anything a woman would do" really bothers me. We haven't really overcome misogyny in our culture, much as we'd like to think we have.

You said it toots.

[2thePoint]

Just thought I'd point out the growing similarity between the "Christian" male supremacist teachings and Islam:

http://islammonitor.org/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=63

What's next?? (no, I really don't want to know)

[Metacrock]

hey that would be good on the egal board

[KR Wordgazer]

I guess in this case, and unfortunately not in more cases, I really do see the difference between the person and the ignorance/arrogance (or as the Christians say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner").

Heh. Yeah. I just find it easier to love fellow sinners when they aren't acting like their weird interpretations of my sacred texts are the right and true ones, and therefore they are righteous and I am not.