is evil essential or realist?

Discuss arguments for existence of God and faith in general. Any aspect of any orientation toward religion/spirituality, as long as it is based upon a positive open to other people attitude.

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mdsimpson92
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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by mdsimpson92 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:46 am

Jim B. wrote:
Why would that tend to lean more towards virtue ethics? I see virtue and deontic as complementary, with virtue more onthe motivational side and deontic more on the justification side. As you mentioned, virtue used as sole justification tends towards being circular

True, though virtue ethics can also be complementary to consequentialism as well. (train mindset to be able to do what is necessary etc)
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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by mdsimpson92 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:46 am

Jim B. wrote:
Why would that tend to lean more towards virtue ethics? I see virtue and deontic as complementary, with virtue more onthe motivational side and deontic more on the justification side. As you mentioned, virtue used as sole justification tends towards being circular

True, though virtue ethics can also be complementary to consequentialism as well. (train mindset to be able to do what is necessary etc)
Julia: It's all... a dream...
Spike Spiegel: Yeah... just a dream...

Jim B.
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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by Jim B. » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:32 pm

mdsimpson92 wrote:
Jim B. wrote:
Why would that tend to lean more towards virtue ethics? I see virtue and deontic as complementary, with virtue more onthe motivational side and deontic more on the justification side. As you mentioned, virtue used as sole justification tends towards being circular

True, though virtue ethics can also be complementary to consequentialism as well. (train mindset to be able to do what is necessary etc)
I agree, but I think there are more serious objections that can be raised against consequentialism than against deontology, so that deontology with a virtue component makes more sense to me than consequentialism with a virtue component.

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Magritte
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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by Magritte » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:53 am

Metacrock wrote:this is a discuhttp://metacrock.blogspot.comssion with fleet from this board. I discuss it on blog, I would like discussion here
Rehab. man was it a drag. I can still barely walk. There was one cool night when I was playing old Beatles songs like "hard days night" and "Can't buy me love" a tribute on PBS so I had the sound way up on the tv. People started dancing in the hall and gathered outside my room and had a sort of party using snacks from the vending machine.

Here is an old post from way back in 2010 but it still has come cash value in the market of ideas. I'll post the comments to it next time:
Hey Meta, I'm glad you're well enough to bicker again. :mrgreen:

A thought on this:
I have always contended (I don't know what I said on the thread you talk about) that atheists can be good people, and many are, but they are coasting on Christian memories in the culture (meaning values).
I don't mind if Christians think secular humanists are borrowing their values. A tower dedicated to and even "inspired by" Ba'al was still built by human architects. Know what I mean?
One of the hallmarks of freedom is that when you recognize someone is being intellectually dishonest or arguing with you in bad faith, you have the option to walk away without being punished, imprisoned or tortured.

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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by Jim B. » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:06 pm

Welcome back, Magritte! Not sure I do know what you mean. Care to expand on that thought a bit?

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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by Magritte » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:47 am

Well, just that, from a secular humanist perspective, it was only ever us coming up with this stuff in the first place, so we aren't borrowing it - it's ours.
One of the hallmarks of freedom is that when you recognize someone is being intellectually dishonest or arguing with you in bad faith, you have the option to walk away without being punished, imprisoned or tortured.

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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by Metacrock » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:11 am

mdsimpson92 wrote:Perhaps a better term for evil is not the absence of good but its negation. That would make sense from any form of realist ethics. It isn't just non-good it is the loss of the good.

love = the good. therefore. any lack of good is it,s negation because, it requires lack of love.
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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by Metacrock » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:17 am

Magritte wrote:Well, just that, from a secular humanist perspective, it was only ever us coming up with this stuff in the first place, so we aren't borrowing it - it's ours.
we are not barrowing it from God. it is part of us, the imago dei .A naturalistic reading of love requires a reduction of love to less than love.
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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by Metacrock » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:38 am

Magritte wrote:
Metacrock wrote:this is a discuhttp://metacrock.blogspot.comssion with fleet from this board. I discuss it on blog, I would like discussion here
Rehab. man was it a drag. I can still barely walk. There was one cool night when I was playing old Beatles songs like "hard days night" and "Can't buy me love" a tribute on PBS so I had the sound way up on the tv. People started dancing in the hall and gathered outside my room and had a sort of party using snacks from the vending machine.

Here is an old post from way back in 2010 but it still has come cash value in the market of ideas. I'll post the comments to it next time:
Hey Meta, I'm glad you're well enough to bicker again. :mrgreen:
thank you, my friend.


A thought on this:
I have always contended (I don't know what I said on the thread you talk about) that atheists can be good people, and many are, but they are coasting on Christian memories in the culture (meaning values).
I don't mind if Christians think secular humanists are borrowing their values. A tower dedicated to and even "inspired by" Ba'al was still built by human architects. Know what I mean?[/quote]

I understand what you are saying, and in a sense you are right. We could speak in a sense of praxis, and just go by7 feelings then it doesn't matter how we can love or what love really is. but that is what I call reduction. you are giving up spiritual life to avoid a problematic.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

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Re: is evil essential or realist?

Post by Metacrock » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:38 am

Magritte wrote:
Metacrock wrote:this is a discuhttp://metacrock.blogspot.comssion with fleet from this board. I discuss it on blog, I would like discussion here
Rehab. man was it a drag. I can still barely walk. There was one cool night when I was playing old Beatles songs like "hard days night" and "Can't buy me love" a tribute on PBS so I had the sound way up on the tv. People started dancing in the hall and gathered outside my room and had a sort of party using snacks from the vending machine.

Here is an old post from way back in 2010 but it still has come cash value in the market of ideas. I'll post the comments to it next time:
Hey Meta, I'm glad you're well enough to bicker again. :mrgreen:
thank you, my friend.


A thought on this:
I have always contended (I don't know what I said on the thread you talk about) that atheists can be good people, and many are, but they are coasting on Christian memories in the culture (meaning values).

I don't mind if Christians think secular humanists are borrowing their values. A tower dedicated to and even "inspired by" Ba'al was still built by human architects. Know what I mean?
I understand what you are saying, and in a sense you are right. We could speak in a sense of praxis, and just go by7 feelings then it doesn't matter how we can love or what love really is. but that is what I call reduction. you are giving up spiritual life to avoid a problematic.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

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