help me keep intellectual standards high

[Metacrock]

please discuss: http://www.livescience.com/16814-animal ... point.html

This so called "study" alleges to find that animals know right from wrong. My fear is that the morons doing the story don't know what moral decision making is. so hat do we think moral decision making is?

hat is that "study" measuring? I think this is also a case of people calling yellow journalism :studies."

My ethical decision making is virtue oriented and deontological. btw who has read Alisdair McIntyre?

[sgttomas]

I think that it's possible animals possess moral awareness though we are not often able to communicate with them.

Why would this be a problem?

Peace,
-sgttomas

[Metacrock]

I think that it's possible animals possess moral awareness though we are not often able to communicate with them.

Why would this be a problem?

Peace,
-sgttomas

I don't think moral thinking is just rule keeping. I bet you don't either. I think i's an understanding of virtue and requires a world view such that ought's are evokes at the top of the metaphysical hierarchy. zi just don't think too many animals can do that. Maybe Dolphins.

Thestudy linked to basically they just said "the dog looks guilty o he's thinking morally."

[Jim B.]

please discuss: http://www.livescience.com/16814-animal ... point.html

This so called "study" alleges to find that animals know right from wrong. My fear is that the morons doing the story don't know what moral decision making is. so hat do we think moral decision making is?

hat is that "study" measuring? I think this is also a case of people calling yellow journalism :studies."

My ethical decision making is virtue oriented and deontological. btw who has read Alisdair McIntyre?

Yeah, Moral reasoning is considering reasons for acting that are potentially universalizable and categorical. Many humans can't do that. I doubt many other species can - maybe dolphins and bonobos to some degree.

[met]

please discuss: http://www.livescience.com/16814-animal ... point.html

This so called "study" alleges to find that animals know right from wrong. My fear is that the morons doing the story don't know what moral decision making is. so hat do we think moral decision making is?

hat is that "study" measuring? I think this is also a case of people calling yellow journalism :studies."

My ethical decision making is virtue oriented and deontological. btw who has read Alisdair McIntyre?

Yeah, Moral reasoning is considering reasons for acting that are potentially universalizable and categorical. Many humans can't do that. I doubt many other species can - maybe dolphins and bonobos to some degree.

I will have to play Devils, or non-human species, advocate here, it seems..... Jim, if rats wont take food that causes a second group of rats to receive electric shocks in what sense Is that not universalizing?

This thread almost suggests a bias here, almost like 'the ability to say it is better than the mere ability to do it' - is that what you guys mean? I'm not sure I understand your objections.....

[Metacrock]

please discuss: http://www.livescience.com/16814-animal ... point.html

This so called "study" alleges to find that animals know right from wrong. My fear is that the morons doing the story don't know what moral decision making is. so hat do we think moral decision making is?

hat is that "study" measuring? I think this is also a case of people calling yellow journalism :studies."

My ethical decision making is virtue oriented and deontological. btw who has read Alisdair McIntyre?

Yeah, Moral reasoning is considering reasons for acting that are potentially universalizable and categorical. Many humans can't do that. I doubt many other species can - maybe dolphins and bonobos to some degree.

Jim that's an excellent point.I thought about pointing that out.

[Metacrock]

please discuss: http://www.livescience.com/16814-animal ... point.html

This so called "study" alleges to find that animals know right from wrong. My fear is that the morons doing the story don't know what moral decision making is. so hat do we think moral decision making is?

hat is that "study" measuring? I think this is also a case of people calling yellow journalism :studies."

My ethical decision making is virtue oriented and deontological. btw who has read Alisdair McIntyre?

Yeah, Moral reasoning is considering reasons for acting that are potentially universalizable and categorical. Many humans can't do that. I doubt many other species can - maybe dolphins and bonobos to some degree.

I will have to play Devils, or non-human species, advocate here, it seems..... Jim, if rats wont take food that causes a second group of rats to receive electric shocks in what sense Is that not universalizing?

This thread almost suggests a bias here, almost like 'the ability to say it is better than the mere ability to do it' - is that what you guys mean? I'm not sure I understand your objections.....

yes call me biased but I thinking is better than not thinking. people are more important than animals.

[met]

Is thinking what makes people people? Are people with impaired thinking then NOT as important?

It strikes me as a bias towards 'ought' rather than 'is', since I'm not sure you could find much correlation between intelligence (or articulation) and actual moral behavior even in humans, as there are plenty of amoral intellectuals - and that the rats who won't touch the food may be acting far more morally than the researchers who set up the experiments.

[Metacrock]

Is thinking what makes people people? Are people with impaired thinking then NOT as important?

It strikes me as a bias towards 'ought' rather than 'is', since I'm not sure you could find much correlation between intelligence (or articulation) and actual moral behavior even in humans, as there are plenty of amoral intellectuals - and that the rats who won't touch the food may be acting far more morally than the researchers who set up the experiments.

I think most humans who unimpaired can understand the concept of being good. Animals can't. At least I have no evidence. of course i did not correlate intelligence with goodness, but to do moral reasoning one must be able to reason. You spoke of correlate intelligence and moral behavior. I'm not talking about behavior but decision making. A dog can exhibit moral behavior without understanding why it's moral.

Nor did I say that intelligence means virtue. It's not enough to just be able to reason morally but it's a start.

[Jim B.]

please discuss: http://www.livescience.com/16814-animal ... point.html

This so called "study" alleges to find that animals know right from wrong. My fear is that the morons doing the story don't know what moral decision making is. so hat do we think moral decision making is?

hat is that "study" measuring? I think this is also a case of people calling yellow journalism :studies."

My ethical decision making is virtue oriented and deontological. btw who has read Alisdair McIntyre?

Yeah, Moral reasoning is considering reasons for acting that are potentially universalizable and categorical. Many humans can't do that. I doubt many other species can - maybe dolphins and bonobos to some degree.

I will have to play Devils, or non-human species, advocate here, it seems..... Jim, if rats wont take food that causes a second group of rats to receive electric shocks in what sense Is that not universalizing?

This thread almost suggests a bias here, almost like 'the ability to say it is better than the mere ability to do it' - is that what you guys mean? I'm not sure I understand your objections.....

But there's no particular reason to think that's anything more than stimulus-response? I tend to think of morality as having to do with the understanding and reasoning over principles of action. We have to think of ourselves from outside of ourselves in terms of the principles one might act on as opposed to what I want to act on. So maybe morality requires language? I dunno. That could be why toddlers and the severely mentally impaired etc and members of other species are not held morally accountable. Some think that this position is specieist. Depends on if you think we're the only species capable of language proper.