What does "apophatic" mean?

[The Pixie]

There was a thread on this recently. It is not a term I have come across before; I have had a quick look on Wiki, but do not really get it. Can anyone enlighten me?

[met]

Complicated term, used in lots of different theological contexts these days...

The basic apophatic concept is 'negative theology,' the idea that God's nature can only be expressed in terms of what God is NOT, so this kind of thinking tends to be aligned with mystic's expressions of experiences that can't really be put into words. ...i.e. "The Cloud of Unknowing" and such....

Taken further - as Jim did above and some famous theologians also have - someone could say that God's "being" is so different and so incomprehensible from us and everything we understand that God can't even be said to "be" (or not to "be" either, for that matter) in any comprehensible way.

So loosely, in apophatism God isn't an object that "exists" within the univerrse or in such a way that it can ever be positively analyzed - and all God-talk has to be understood as analogical and/or metaphorical at best.

But it's not a strict dichotomy. either, and lots of theologies combine apophatic and "cataphatic" (ie positive) elements.

[Metacrock]

rigt, I can't show you the hole in the do nut but i can show you the donut around the hole,

[Metacrock]

rigt, I can't show you the hole in the do nut but i can show you the donut around the hole,

[met]

rigt, I can't show you the hole in the do nut but i can show you the donut around the hole,

Well, some might feel your 'hole in the donut' metaphor ain't apophatic enough either!

[The Pixie]

So is it questioning whether God even exists?

[met]

So is it questioning whether God even exists?

It's usually based on a mystical apprehension of divine incomprehensibilty. Classical X-Ian expression is the notorious last chapter of Mystical Theology by the pseudo-Dios (6th century ce, IIRC) ending thusly...

... nor can any affirmation or negation be applied to it, for although we may affirm or deny the things below it, we can neither affirm nor deny it, inasmuch as the all-perfect and unique Cause of all things transcends all affirmation, and the simple pre-eminence of Its absolute nature is outside of every negation- free from every limitation and beyond them all.

[Jim B.]

So is it questioning whether God even exists?

It's usually based on a mystical apprehension of divine incomprehensibilty. Classical X-Ian expression is the notorious last chapter of Mystical Theology by the pseudo-Dios (6th century ce, IIRC) ending thusly...

... nor can any affirmation or negation be applied to it, for although we may affirm or deny the things below it, we can neither affirm nor deny it, inasmuch as the all-perfect and unique Cause of all things transcends all affirmation, and the simple pre-eminence of Its absolute nature is outside of every negation- free from every limitation and beyond them all.

Do you really think this is worth the effort with Pixie?

[The Pixie]

Do you really think this is worth the effort with Pixie?

There is an issue here about people saying things that are not true. Maybe the issue is with making a mistake, but being unable to admit it to the "evil atheist"; I have certainly seen that before on other fora. I think it is now clear that you did not indicate that you have doubts about whether there is a God in your thread about apothatic vs cataphatic, despite your claim. I thought it would a good idea to at least poll opinion on what the word means, because I accept it is not a word I was familiar with, but my reading on it did not agree with what you were claiming. Nothing on this thread suggests it is calling into question the existence of god, only that that existence could be incomprehensible.

[Metacrock]

Do you really think this is worth the effort with Pixie?

There is an issue here about people saying things that are not true. Maybe the issue is with making a mistake, but being unable to admit it to the "evil atheist"; I have certainly seen that before on other fora. I think it is now clear that you did not indicate that you have doubts about whether there is a God in your thread about apothatic vs cataphatic, despite your claim. I thought it would a good idea to at least poll opinion on what the word means, because I accept it is not a word I was familiar with, but my reading on it did not agree with what you were claiming. Nothing on this thread suggests it is calling into question the existence of god, only that that existence could be incomprehensible.

apophatioc theology is not about doubt it;s about the idea that God is beyond our understanding, That is a huge difference, it;s not doubting God to realize that God is real bgig and we are real small.