Is God/Jesus giving God/Jesus to God/Jesus, giving a sacrif

[Metacrock]

[3:58]
THIS MESSAGE do We convey unto thee, and this tiding full of wisdom:
[3:59]
Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of Jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" – and he is.
[3:60]
[This is] the truth from thy Sustainer; be not, then, among the doubters!

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

[2:252]
THESE are God’s messages: We convey them unto thee, [O Prophet,] setting forth the truth – for, verily, thou art among those who have been entrusted with a message.
[2:253]
Some of these prophets have We endowed more highly than others: among them were such as were spoken to by God [Himself], and some He has raised yet higher. And We vouchsafed unto Jesus, the son of Mary, all evidence of the truth, and strengthened him with holy inspiration.
And if God had so willed, they who succeeded those [prophets] would not have contended with one another after all evidence of the truth had come to them; but [as it was,] they did take to divergent views, and some of them attained to faith, while some of them came to deny the truth. Yet if God had so willed, they would not have contended with one another: but God does whatever He wills.
[2:254]
O YOU who have attained to faith! Spend [in Our way] out of what We have granted you as sustenance ere there come a Day when there will be no bargaining, and no friendship, and no intercession. And they who deny the truth – it is they who are evildoers!
[2:255]
GOD – there is no deity save Him, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsistent Fount of All Being.
Neither slumber overtakes Him, nor sleep. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth. Who is there that could intercede with Him, unless it be by His leave?
He knows all that lies open before men and all that is hidden from them, whereas they cannot attain to aught of His knowledge save that which He wills [them to attain].
His eternal power overspreads the heavens and the earth, and their upholding wearies Him not. And He alone is truly exalted, tremendous.

what book?

[sgttomas]

...beg your pardon?

[Metacrock]

...beg your pardon?

are you quoting?

what books are you quoting?

GOD – there is no deity save Him, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsistent Fount of All Being.

wow holy Tillich Batman, shades of being itself! See why I want to know the source? don't say "the Koran" becuase I'm sure they have names for it's sections right?

[sgttomas]

are you quoting?

what books are you quoting?

lol...oh, okay I got you. The first reference was in the square brackets....book # 3. It's also called "surah al Imran", but book/chapter #3 is the easier reference. Therefore the second reference is from the second chapter, aka "surah baqarah". The particular translation I was using - and GREATLY PREFER -is by Asad (there also versions to be found here and here that each have a different layout). This is a pretty good run-down of the issues with current translations: http://www.meforum.org/717/assessing-en ... -the-quran

Another very good translation is by Martin Lings, but it isn't readily available....however an abridged version can be found here, along with another source for Asad.

wow holy Tillich Batman, shades of being itself! See why I want to know the source? don't say "the Koran" becuase I'm sure they have names for it's sections right?

See, this is what I've been trying to convey - "Being Itself" is central to the message of the Quran. Just like in the Hebrew, God had different Names to convey His attributes, so too does the Arabic language continue in this tradition. And the Quran reveals over a hundred, of which 99 are typically identified. The name that corresponds with "Being Itself" is Al-Qayyoom: Self-subsistent, Fount of All Being. It isn't always translated that way (other renderings go with "Eternal, Absolute"...which is troublesome to me), but from what I have read about the name, I think that's a pretty darn good way of conveying the meaning. Any religion striving to be upon the truth HAS to have it.

Peace,
-sgttomas

[Greatest I am]

Hm....well this is awkward. I pretty much agree with everything you say here. I agree almost entirely with the first video link. The second one is an interesting place to start from....and I can't stand to listen to that Dawkins guy anymore, so I never actually listened to it.

-sgttomas

Sorry I made you uncomfortable.
i am also sorry to be tardy. The notification thing does not seem to be working.

If I am on a roll, let me give you this.

Jesus had and has no right to forgive sin that is directed toward another individual.
Only the individual has any right to forgive.
If I sin against you, you are the one to forgive. Not some other entity who has not been wronged.
To forgive is to shed the emotions of betrayal from ones self.
For some other to forgive is not shedding this load.
To allow some other to forgive is to condemn ourselves to forever carry this load.
Jesus, if his forgiveness is to be believed, condemns us to hardship and this is why God rejected such a sacrifice.
For us to forgive cleanses our souls. For Jesus to usurp this duty that is ours, dirties us as well as justice.
That is why God prefers justice to sacrifice from some third party.

Regards
DL


Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Well gosh, we are doing the best we can. you do want modern science don't you? can't have it all. you try interjecting myths of the eternal return while nurturing notions of progress in history and see how easy it is to balance between the two. We've only been at this religious imagery thing for a couple of thousand years, that's a long time for modern thought but for religious mythology is pretty young.

[3:9]
"O our Sustainer! Verily, Thou wilt gather mankind together to witness the Day about [the coming of] which there is no doubt: verily, God never fails to fulfil His promise."

Peace,
-sgttomas

How about God's promise that none be lost and that there would be no need for a hell.

2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Regards
DL

[doxaws]

in a post that has been deleted GIA used obscene language and dared the admin to ban him. He apparently wants to be banned and so he is. He will not be back under any circumstances.

[doxaws]

Well gosh, we are doing the best we can. you do want modern science don't you? can't have it all. you try interjecting myths of the eternal return while nurturing notions of progress in history and see how easy it is to balance between the two. We've only been at this religious imagery thing for a couple of thousand years, that's a long time for modern thought but for religious mythology is pretty young.

[3:9]
"O our Sustainer! Verily, Thou wilt gather mankind together to witness the Day about [the coming of] which there is no doubt: verily, God never fails to fulfil His promise."

Peace,
-sgttomas

How about God's promise that none be lost and that there would be no need for a hell.

2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Regards
DL

It doesn't say you can't jump out of his hand if want to. If God gives us free will he gives us the choice to dman ourselves. you did that. you have only yourself to blame.

goodbye forever.

[sgttomas]

epic fail.

....heh, man I was just starting to like this guy.

-sgtt

[Metacrock]

this guy is banned permanently but I want to answer this argument for the sake of the lurkers who might see it and think it's good.

Hm....well this is awkward. I pretty much agree with everything you say here. I agree almost entirely with the first video link. The second one is an interesting place to start from....and I can't stand to listen to that Dawkins guy anymore, so I never actually listened to it.

-sgttomas

Sorry I made you uncomfortable.
i am also sorry to be tardy. The notification thing does not seem to be working.

If I am on a roll, let me give you this.

Jesus had and has no right to forgive sin that is directed toward another individual.
Only the individual has any right to forgive.
If I sin against you, you are the one to forgive. Not some other entity who has not been wronged.
To forgive is to shed the emotions of betrayal from ones self.
For some other to forgive is not shedding this load.
To allow some other to forgive is to condemn ourselves to forever carry this load.
Jesus, if his forgiveness is to be believed, condemns us to hardship and this is why God rejected such a sacrifice.
For us to forgive cleanses our souls. For Jesus to usurp this duty that is ours, dirties us as well as justice.
That is why God prefers justice to sacrifice from some third party.

Regards
DL


Regards
DL

if Jesus was not Messaih and not the second person of the Tirnity he would not have the authority to forgive sins, but since he was those things he does. that' was the whole point. He did that purposely to make the statment "I am the second person of the Trinity." He even says "so you know that the son of man has authority to forgive sin on earth, your sins be forgiven." that was the point he made.

the whole is revolves around are Chrsitians right about who Jesus is? Of cousre GIA said absolutely nothing to disprove that. He merely asserted it every time.